I agree that it’s a bit odd.

Should be an easy fix though - upload the vocals and/or other samples, and create another version of this track that uses one or two ccM samples and you should be good to go.

Hi guys I’m not promote a project I’m just getting free music out there if there’s another way to upload these track to this site I would be happy to do so, it’s all about free music guys! this album was purely done for fun.

If there have been no samples used in the track you must upload it as an original or break down parts as colab says for otheres to use.

As I have said this track is about 4 years if not more old and I have had several computers and crashes and do not have the original parts anymore as Loveshadow has said once it’s out there it becomes one big sample maybe you should have another category of upload on this site because it’s all about sharing ideas and just because it’s not short clips doesn’t mean it can’t be sampled by others.

I don’t know if there was or was not a sample used. I could turn any track or sample on this site to be ` indiscernible ’ and have done so many times ,that would would not stop it being legitimate as an upload , just because you cant hear it.

As Omni quoted the Hard Rain track as a source it appeared that there was some portion of it in the track and just because i could not recognise ( as i said ) it doesn’t mean it isnt there. So i gave him the the benefit of the doubt.

Whether its to promote a four year album is imatterial. Omni has now placed it into creative commons now for any one mess with and remix and to my ears there were more than enough `non vocal’ bars to make this a usable sample. More so than most people upload as a ` sample in fact.

So the tags of original and sample could be all thats needed.

It would be nice if he uploaded vocals and seprated samples but that’s up to him.

Adding tags of `original and sample’ is enough under what i know of the site.

There are plenty other `Originals’ on the site where often the way they are legitimised is a just offering a separate acapella. If that can be done then then adding other CC parts to this remix of is not needed by Omni.

However there is more than enough of this track vocal free to make something with. And as i have said its now available for anyone to use. So just tags would do in my opinion.

On the Ed pick matter then take on board my notes on the use of samples.

I like the track and the quality of it. I dont feel like doing a u turn on my choice in the light of no other sample material being used as i was under the impression that there might be some in here.

However if you want it removed , as you obviously feel it is not worthy or does not qualify then mail Artistech and i will stand by their decision.

I absolutely get the point you’re making, Panu, and agree with what you’re saying. xxxx

I’m with Panu on this. Nothing personal against OM, who is a truly fantastic musician, but I think that the spirit of the site is to encourage genuine mixing rather than original material - Victor’s policy on this was a good one, and has kept ccM different in feel from other sites which do a different (a perfectly valid) job.

It may be that technically the track has Loveshadow as the source material, but it looks a bit like that’s a way of getting round the rules here?

Maybe there’s a way that OM can contribute the album in the same way as other artists have done, perhaps for a particular project?

For me, the ed pick looks odd, for the same reasons. That said - great track!

If someone can give me a ruling on this matter because I have several tracks I would like to share and if you feel I’m breaking the rules I will not upload anymore.

the music is good & deserves to be uploaded but the remix tag should only be used when ccM samples are part of the mix.

This is a good example of a fully mixed track that was uploaded as a sample, as opposed to a remix.

It’s too bad your track cause a bit of uproar, because it’s really good, and I think a lot of people would line up to work with it. I would love to do it myself.

My $0.02 is to remove this upload and re-upload it from the “sample” page, complete with the stems.

I do not have the “stems” as you call them as Loveshadow has said there is plenty in the track for people to make there own samples from but it does say on the sample box I quote “DO NOT UPLOAD FULLY MIXED TRACKS
Fully mixed tracks will be deleted without further notice.”

I have made a sample pack from your mix. Ok its after the fact and against the `club rules’ i suppose but will stop all this rubbish if you edit the properties and remix sources on your upload and then use my pack as the source for your mix.

Now that is collaboration!

I believe this track should either be retagged as a sample or the source tracks/stems should be uploaded for use amongst the community to keep it categorized as a mix, unless it actually does use samples from the Loveshadow track referenced. Make sense?

I really appreciate everyone’s willingness to work through to a clear solution.

While we’re discussing this, I have 11 albums worth of material I’ve never released on ccM because I don’t have access to the source (stems). I believe ccM is all about sharing and I suppose any track could be remixed. I’m curious what people think in that regard, as it may help shed light on this situation as well?

Thanks Omni and Loveshadow for your patience…..this dialogue seems healthy to me even if a bit sticky.

If you serach your own servers you will find quite few ` full tracks’ like this. If you see what i have done with creating a sample pack with this one, then all i can say is anything can be used.

Thanks for the kind words

How is this unclear I quote “I’ve used HARD MOONLIGHT !
by Loveshadow as the source material just so i can upload the album i hope this is ok? if not let me know.”

“just so i can upload the album i hope this is ok?” gave some the impression you didn’t actually use the source, but just said you did to upload the album.

thanks for your patience. this community is really vigilant about the TOC. it is all about participating and working together. feel free to drop me a line privately so we can better discuss and clarify this right away.

i don’t see your email registered or i would contact you directly ;)

I really don’t see how i can make it any clearer if you want it taken off just say and i will remove it!

I believe ccMixter artists in general like to hear how they were placed in a mix, and when it’s not clear where or how their material was used—well, it’s just not as exciting ;-)

You are in the dangerous waters of dictating what a remix should be here. A debate i have had many times. Its an assumption on your part. I dont care what my uploads ect end up sounding like. I for one dont need a level of recognisable `exitiment’. i upload so it can be used unreservedly and hope someone gets benefit from what i do. That’s what this site is about and for me it ends there.

really not wanting or needing to dictate anything here, so sorry…I didn’t intend it that way. Didn’t mean to speak for the site as a whole, just my humble opinion.

There is an excitement in this space of cc music that I am inherently drawn to, and this discussion, while not really a “review” of Omni’s mix, is helping me tremendously by reviewing my own perceptions of what the ccMixter community is about. Thanks for your points of view!

I was writing a lengthy reply to Spinning…. when i saw you had more or less said what i had written. I would add there are still several fully mixed tracks i know of on the site going back over the last few years ` untagged whats to be done with them . ? All Omni did was not fully understand the upload process but to his credit has placed his work into creative commons and even i have even been able to make a good sample pack and remix from it.

To me its totally unfair and a bit sad to have had this level of public debate over a single upload a matter that could have quite of easily been dealt with behind doors either by email , as i have with questionable remixes to admin over the years or technically as Victor used to do with adding or moving incorrect tags.

All this jostling, stamping of feet and taking sides is a sad reflection on the spirit of site.

I’m sorry this has spun out of control, although I’ve appreciated everyone’s concern and input.

I believe the confusion came from the way the description was phrased, which seemed to cause folks to question whether a Loveshadow sample was actually used. If indeed it was (which I’m gathering is the case), the upload as a remix and Ed Pick seem fine by me. If for some reason it wasn’t (like some folks may have perceived), tagging it as a sample, as Loveshadow suggested earlier above, seems fine by me as well.

I agree that Omni, Loveshadow, and everyone else on this thread for that matter, are all AMAZING contributors to ccMixter and I really hope we will all feel more connected after this little discussion. My apologies if anyone has been offended and my gratitude for the patience and participation of everyone. Thanks to Steve for his wisdom and input as well. (Victor is traveling and may not be able to connect for a few days…)

I’m ready to move on and just say, kick a$$ mix Omni.

Cheers all……

Oh, I plan to turn all of this energy into a mix for the 3RRR project. In some strange way, this bonding with ya’ll has inspired my creativity…..

Quote: Loveshadow…. I would add there are still several fully mixed tracks i know of on the site going back over the last few years ` untagged whats to be done with them . ?

just to also clarify this, it is possible to have historically submitted a remix, only to have the original source artist remove the source for some reason. if that happens, the remix will remain in the archive with no attribution. this is probably the case with most if not all remixes in the archive with no associated attribution.

for example, here’s a remix i did which featured a pella by Clarance Boddyker, which he has obviously since taken down.

and i just want to add that it’s good that folks like panu are protective of the nature of the site. i think for future reference, it would be great to keep this kind of discussion either offline (by flagging something or notifying one of the admins with questions or concerns) or bringing it up in a forum thread, just to keep the reviews on point (as j. lang would say).

Well said.

Well Kaer i respect your view. But there is nothing of mine in here it would seem and on first listening is couldn’t hear what it was. However i trusted that there may have been and unlike others was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.

On first listening to the work done here it clearly exceeds the use of whatever `the sample was’ , i don’t actually feature in it do i, and so that work should be praised.

Let me also say there are a whole bunch of tracks i would have Ed Picked on this site and have not because of a conflict of interest either with my association to the mixer or my total commitment to what ever they produce. Many of those mixes have been left as no one else saw fit to pick them but i would have but i cant make someone else do it.

In contrast there are several picks that i don’t think should have been for a variety of reasons but i abide by others decision and their choice.

Conversely if someone had used a drum loop of mine and created a whole song that was really good from it should i not pick because of that.? Ed Pickers are doing the job of finding good tracks were not solicitors.

Let me also say openly i have had a few mixes removed from the site for illegal samples or otherwise. I did it by notifying the admin of which by the way i am not.

I didn’t publicly make a mixer feel he had done something wrong and drop a ton of shit on his mix like there is here. Those mixes were dealt with by Victor in every case and nobody suffered or even knew about them.

In this matter i openly have said i would agree with what Artistech decided and i would guess there has been a fair amount of traffic to them behind the scenes.

Omni has suffered as in this case as it should have been dealt with in the same way as myself and others have in the past. It was not. In fact i made an Ed Pick a week back that was removed did you see it ?

However i think there’s more damage by the comments suggesting Omni had other manipulative intentions by trying to bend the rules than by my mistake of thinking there was a sample of mine that i couldnt hear. Its an indirect characterization of a stranger. That’s something i would never think of any mixer as in truth there are no gains to be had.

As for the job of Ed Picking i wont be making anymore, and you are welcome to the burden of the task of listening to every submitted mix any day, just go volunteer i am sure you will do a splendid job. :-)

Whats also amusing that on reflection the one track that should have been an Ed Pick for sure but i didnt as hes a friend i.e conflict of interest,and yet nobody else did, has you majorly featured in it !

http://ccmixter.org/reviews...

AJ I love this review you totally get the track and if there was an Editor Pick for reviews I would defo pick yours cheers!