Quote: Father Scrough
So the film takes 4 years, but the music is required to be finished in less than four weeks. Collaboration? Who is kidding who? This seems to show a total lack of foresight.

Hi! Post production on a film is always rushed. It’s ridiculous. We spend many years (more than 4) getting the thing going, and then we rush like crazy at the end. It’s part of the game.

What we’re doing here at CCmixter is to collaborate on only PART of the soundtrack. The film has a lot of music in it that is innapropriate for this site, since it contains copyrighted material that we’re claiming Fair Use. However, I’ve been a fan of ccmixter for years and Victor and I have spoke since March about doing something like this, unfortunately I had to a) finish editing the film first, and b) give the composer enough time to create these first passes that we’re hoping you folks will enjoy. He made them in a week - I don’t think its that crazy that folks here could make some fine fine work within a couple of weeks time.

Also, we’re trying to create a process whereby the film could have continual remix, but for now, we’re premiering the film at a couple of festivals and are immediate needs are soon.

Anyway, we’re making this all up as we go along - its not like there is a road map to follow :)

Thanks for your feedback, hope you have a chance to join in

Brett
opensourcecinema.org

Quote: colabThanks for the prompt response. Seeing as you’re on the line, could you expand on how the film will treat “non-commercial use only” licenses?


I don’t think NC licenses will work. As you guessed, the film has broadcasters etc so is technically a commercial enterprise, although try telling that to my family :)

So, we’ll be clearer in the description, that NC licenses won’t work.

It’s Brett’s movie but to be as clear as I can, my understanding is:

Attribution samples ONLY

Do NOT use NonCommercial samples.

VS

Allow me to say - very, very cool project! While I understand that technically/legally this is a commercial project - in spirit it is not so much. I think that this is one heck of a good fight you are fighting. I can only encourage everyone to read up a little more about your project.

Criticizing and trying to affect change - especially against some of the biggest commercial powerhouses around (including their political puppets) - in my mind qualifies you as either rather crazy or quite a hero. I don’t think you’re all that crazy :-)

To change topics a bit in reference to the grumpy grandparent post:

Having never had any exposure to the insides of the movie making business, I can’t even imagine how intense it is. From a high level, it almost seems that making a movie is a bit like building a new house. The deadline to move out of one’s old house doesn’t move, but there are delays form varying sources in the construction project - from financing to the various trades, so as the moving deadline nears, things get more and more chaotic.

My full admiration to you for being able to work in that kind of environment and still being able to maintain your upbeat and friendly demeanor when someone questions what the heck you’re doing. :-)

Fortunately I’ve seen numerous remixers here, who are capable of turning around excellent work in amazingly short periods of time. So I hope you’ll get some great tracks from here!

Sorry to appear grumpy - and I have no grandchildren - but it was more a cry of wah! shock horror! at the finish date.

What can I say that Brett hasn’t already mentioned only to add that I was excited about this project no matter what the timeline was for several reasons, it’s the right subject matter with the right license and Brett didn’t have to involve this community at all, I for one was grateful and feel privileged he considered us for these four scenes.

Considering the sources for the film (video and sound) are the Commons forever (now that’s a cool timeline) I want to say something I’ve been remiss in doing in private or in public regarding this project: Thanks!

VS

thanks victor! It’s been really fun to see samples from the film show up all over the place…I only hope it continues after the film gets released!

I believe the “Non-Commercial” refers to the NC license. So in other words you can not use any NC licensed CC or copyrighted samples.

But you already knew that. : )

thanks for the quick response!

OK, yes, that was double confusing because ALL samples here are copyrighted, some licensed NonCommercial which means it can’t be used in commercial settings…. er, right, confusing, a little.

Hopefully the wording is clear now; Attribution ONLY.

(sorry for what’s below, my english is not that good)

for long time i was waiting for CCmixter to have a mix “contest”. that’s why i logged here but nothing new for longtime.

and now it’s this film to remix :D yeah nice… but hey… the main idea sux. i don’t agree with this film. i come here to share things, work freely with people IF I WANT. that’s liberty. my liberty to create open source OR NOT. All these people who want to DL freely the work of artists is just a non sense. all these looby tring to sell the idea that opensource is the only way to build the future… because it’s new is a non sense.

liberty can not be the right for people to steal other people.
only the right to give for free or not. anyway every copyright ends 70years after the death of an artist so you just have to wait. it is so the artist and his kids can survive. is that a crime ?

But i promess the day i can walk to a store and get everything i want freely i’ll put my music online for nothing.

when i can go in a cinema for nothing my music will be free.

when i can eat in a restaurant fok the waitress and walk out in peace for nothing my music will be free.

and btw why the hell is it ALWAYS for musicans to work for nothing. so many people telling me “ah you’r musician so is that ok if we don’t pay you ?” in the mind of people, musician is a poor guy alone with drug and a rotten piano.

in the movie i see a parrallel between science and music ! what a demagogy ! science makes people live, survive ! some guys around the world DIE because medicine is copyrighted it’s a real ethical problem. will you die because you don’t have the new Madonna stuff ?

3 years ago i signed with a major. they gave me some cash for project even if they don’t come out. i was doing music all day. this year my deal is over. they lost 40% of income due to piracy. now i wrok the nights in a restaurant. i hope people wont be able to eat freely as they download music freely or i’ll sleep under a bridge.

i share because i want to share not because a freaking law asks me to do so. and if i want to kill myself asking 1 million$ for a single song it’s my right to do so and your right not to buy it.

now you can delete this message if you think it doesn’t suite the purpose of the lobby you deserve. if you do so, please delete my account and my songs on CCmixter.
anyway this entire world is upside down.

Sylvain,

I’m not going to delete this. In fact I agree with you. You make really good points and in my opinion, really well written.

But I do think you are definitely directing your energy at the wrong people.

This is why it’s difficult to host contests. : )

actually, this is exactly what i was thinking as well. the anger is misdirected towards the people that want to share, not steal. if the anger is directed towards the movie people for wanting to use something for nothing, i think they have been very upfront about what they are doing and artists here can choose whether or not they want to participate. it’s their choice just as you say it’s your choice whether or not to share your music for free. if the movie producers (and lets remember that in this case it seems to be a documentary about remixers) have been upfront about terms of use, it’s anyone’s choice to decide whether to take advantage of the exposure they are offering in return for pro-bono work. again, anyone here can choose as they like, but the world needs more cooperation and less confrontation, and nothing personal but your anger really does seem misdirected towards the wrong crowd here.

mmm ok i guess i’m not the only one and i’m sure i don’t understand 100% of the message.

i’m “radical” (?) because the idea “all for free” is strong here in europe and i feel it’s dangerous.
cooperation is why i came here.

Quote: sylvain moreau because the idea “all for free” is strong here in europe
Sorry, I don’t quite understand how you got to equate ccMixter with some “all for free” idea and piracy being the cause for you losing your recording deal.

There is abundant NC (non-commercial) content here. And ccMixter has never advocated or allowed “piracy”. So I’m not quite sure why you are expressing so much anger here in a ccMixter forum.

People here remix only stuff that has been given to the remix community freely by the people who have the rights to that work. They don’t take stuff that they shouldn’t.

If you are not interested in contributing “free” work for a documentary movie about remixing, just don’t do it. There is no need to feel offended. Organizations ask for free contributions all the time. And everyone is free to ignore them. And some people feel ok about doing something for free for a cause they believe in. They should have the freedom to do so without being shouted at.

Much of the Internet would not exist, if it wasn’t for free work by many computer programmers, universities and even commercial companies.

ccMixter is built on a ton of “free” work and also on a lot of seriously underpaid work by people who gave that work to a cause they believe in.

In our age “free” lives side by side with paid. And arguably that has been the case throughout human history. Business and community service have to live side by side.

Art has been partially paid, partially free for a very long time. In my opinion, the Creative Commons and ccMixter recognize that better than most traditional record companies.

So before you get angry at ccMixter, you may want to do a little bit more research about the history of the Creative Commons If you want to fight, don’t fight your friends :-)

p.s. I think traditional remix contests (for studio equipment and/or an autographed CD) are of less economic value than a lottery ticket.

Quote: spinmeister
Much of the Internet would not exist, if it wasn’t for free work by many computer programmers, universities and even commercial companies.
and i would say most of the internet wouldn’t exist without paid work + what about non paid work that have huge advertising and etc … but anyway let’s talk about music.

Quote: spinmeister
So before you get angry at ccMixter, you may want to do a little bit more research about the history of the Creative Commons If you want to fight, don’t fight your friends :-)
please read carfully my post i was talking about a movie not ccmixter. this movie is in ccmixter so i speek about it here. If this is not clear sorry.
i saw some samples of this movies where a “music industry lobbyst” was shawn is the BAD big brother guy who is telling students that they are criminals. then people saying “you can’t put kees every where etc…” m not talking about ccmixter anywhere. But if this movie is what ccmixter want the world to be and as far as my noob english understood everything … i don’t agree with it.

Quote: spinmeisterp.s. I think traditional remix contests (for studio equipment and/or an autographed CD) are of less economic value than a lottery ticket.
i’m not here for any cash, just having fun working on other people’s sounds.

It is very difficult to talk about these issues when posting text over the Internet. It is even more difficult when there is a language issue — which I suspect may be clouding some of the talk here. That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be discussed, CC stands for something and it’s important for a clear picture of that to spread as widely as possible; I just want to make sure we make a special effort in this case to be understood.

I think people trying to understand CC (and by extension ccMixter) would be well served by reading Prof. Lessig’s books, especially “ Free Culture” and “ The Future of Ideas.” Most apropos will be his new book “ Remix” which is due for release any day. I have only read snippets from an earlier version but it is aimed directly at the purpose of ccMixter. (Disclosure: I make a small appearance in that book.)

The only other thing I want to say is that to the extent that Brett’s movie advocates reforming fair-use and copyright laws and legal activism to achieve those means, CC and ccMixter consider that project to be a kindred project. We are proud to be associated with it and stand by our shared principles.

VS