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Synching Vocals to a beat?

permalink   Mon, Sep 10, 2007 @ 1:45 AM
I’m trying to make a remix (my first) for the Fort Minor remix here, but I’m having trouble making sure whether the vocals are on time with my beat. I checked what BPM the vocals are, and I’ve gotten readings between 86 and 107 on different programs, but I know the song should be 85.. Any tips on how to make sure they’re on time?
Luke Tripp
permalink   Tue, Sep 11, 2007 @ 11:12 AM
Hey Bobbias,

First off welcome to ccMixter.

The tempo to Fort Minor is 85bpm. But if you’re wanting to find the bpm to a song that doesn’t tell you, download the demo of Fruity Loops. Then in your session open up the playlist (can find it in the view tab), click in the lower portion (it’s divided into track loops, and audio files) and load up the vocal. Then click the little down arrow on the audio file which will give you some options of what to do with it ie, cut, and stutter. You want to choose, “Find BPM”. You’ll be prompted with a window, just select which ever BPM range you think it’s closest to. Fruity Loops does its thing, and then you get your BPM. If it’s an official acapella Fruity Loops will give you the BPM perfectly, DIY’s acapellas it has a little trouble but it gets close.

You can also use another feature in it, “Fit to Tempo”. Where it’ll take the vocal and match it to your current tempo. Just remember not to stray to far from the original tempo or the vocal won’t sound natural. Then again, maybe you don’t want it to sound natural.

A tip with finding the tempo:
- Go for the middle tempo range since most songs are written here. If you have a slow song at 60bpm, it’ll tell you it’s 120bpm. Everything will be on beat, but just a whole lot faster than the original in which case you’ll know to use the lower tempo range to find the BPM.
permalink   Bobbias Wed, Sep 12, 2007 @ 1:08 AM
I’m not new to finding the BPM, it’s just that the phrasing and location of the rap syllables made it really hard to hear whether something was on time or not.
I did use the Find BPM feature using both the 50-100 BPM range one and the 75-150 range one, neither of which read 85, and I used Mix Meister as well to see what it said.

I know about time stretching, pitch shifting, and such, but my main problem was just that the rap itself made it sound offbeat to me… I’ve more or less finished what I’m going to do with it anyway, all I’ve got left is tweaking, mastering, and such.

I’ve been messing around in FL since version 3 or so, so I’m pretty familiar with how it works. (I also happen to have Adobe Audition, Cubase SX3, and a rather large collection of VSTs)

(just to give you a better idea of how much I know and such about production programs and stuff).
permalink   Luke Tripp Wed, Sep 12, 2007 @ 10:58 AM
Oh ok, you were wanting to know what words start on on each measure then. This is tough sometimes, the only thing I can advise is to listen to the original pick 5 seconds and just match that with your version. Check to see if the first kick is on time with the original and etc. With rap vocals like Remember the Name, if you match up one little part all of the rest will match.
permalink   misterC Wed, Sep 12, 2007 @ 7:18 PM
Yeah, the best thing is to understand the phrasing and rhythm of the rap/melody on the original track, then no matter what beat you put behind it, you’ll know where the emphasis should be.. it should only take a few listens to be able to figure it out.

Some people don’t want to listen to the original track as not to ‘influence’ anything, and that works sometimes (it even has for me..), but I think it’s a necessity if you’re having trouble finding the placement/groove of the vocal.
permalink   Mon, Sep 10, 2007 @ 5:05 AM
extracting a bpm from a vocal is hard to impossible. (they are 85 btw)

I recommending dropping in the original drums with the vocals get them lined up. Then sync’in your drums to the original drum track, then remove the original drums. Makes sense?
permalink   Bobbias Mon, Sep 10, 2007 @ 11:35 AM
Thanks, I am rather new to producing and remixing, so I’ll probably be posting asking for help more than once, lol. My problem was that the original drums were so different that you couldn’t tell whether mine were on beat or not (I’m adding some DnB elements in)
permalink   Bobbias Mon, Sep 10, 2007 @ 10:49 PM
Well, I finished my mix. I solved my problem by removing most of the vocals, lol. I think I did a pretty good job actually, considering it’s my first remix.
permalink   Thu, Oct 11, 2007 @ 7:21 AM
Like misterC said, sometimes listening to other remixes is the best plan, especially when it comes to being tripped up by the pella itself. I’m still catching up with current technology (“Snap to zero-crossing” blew me away when first I saw it!), but when the various BPM-detectors in my progs just frustrate me, I’ll take the most likely number as a starting point, open the track w/ Wavelab lite, enter the number into the meter/tempo option, and line up a nice strong peak, like a plosive. I then check for apparent stretch or shrink over the length of the file and adjust bpm until things line up. If you’re still hearing wander, or just think it still sounds off, remember that verses and chrus are often originally recorded separately, and it’s often necessary to re-chop things up a bit. I love pellas that sync straight thru and can be used as a 1-shot for the length of the track, but such is not often the case. I love automation, but beatmappers and whatnot are kinda like spellcheck- when they get it right, it’s a huge timesaver. When they get it wrong, however… it’s like the ‘puter INSISTING you mean “Hilarious Heartbreak” instead of “Hilary’s Heartbreak” for your piece on Kenneth Starr :P
permalink   Wed, Oct 10, 2007 @ 4:24 PM
The one thing that is an issue for me is studio recorded trakcs not giving the BPM. You can hear headphone spill so you know when its done to another backing track.

The upload gives a BPM window which is confusing to say the least. Now i know some people will be free flow and not have a BPM marker but those that do should quote it.

its especially important for changeing tempos as progs like soundforge can BPM adjust automatically without pitch change a wav if you know the orginal BPM.

its not a complaint by the way as its all good workable stuff on this site it would just be good to accurately state a BPM when and if its known rather than giving a window.
permalink   victor Wed, Oct 10, 2007 @ 10:47 PM
sorry for the confusion, each upload has a bpm field that is up to the uploader to fill in and is displayed on the song’s page.

when the system sees the field is filled in, it generated a tag that groups it within the range of similar tempos. this seemed like a reasonable way to get a search of similar tempo’d samples and pells with just a single click.

These are 2 separate things, tag gets you ‘close’ then the upload’s specific bpm should nail it — but life isn’t always that good.

permalink   Sun, Dec 22, 2019 @ 1:10 PM
Good evening everyone, please help me, i produced a song and in the end the instrumental and the vocal does not match right. Any experts so I can have my problem resolved?
permalink   Apoxode Mon, Dec 23, 2019 @ 4:17 PM
Hi Renato,

I’m not an expert, but I may be able to help.
First, let’s clarify the issue, since the problem you’re having can mean a few things.
When you say “in the end,” do you mean the last part of the song?
When you say “the instrumental and the vocal does not match right,” do you mean that one is faster than the other, or that the notes don’t go together?
It would help to know what you’re working with, so can you tell us which instrumental and vocal you are using?
permalink   Tue, Jan 28, 2020 @ 2:02 AM
Quote: BobbiasI’m trying to make a remix (my first) for the Fort Minor remix here, but I’m having trouble making sure whether the vocals are on time with my beat. I checked what BPM the vocals are, and I’ve gotten readings between 86 and 107 on different programs, but I know the song should be 85.. Any tips on how to make sure they’re on time?
for sure??
permalink   Snowflake Tue, Jan 28, 2020 @ 9:20 AM
you can always try to manipulate each phrase to the grid if you need to.
permalink   coruscate Wed, Jan 29, 2020 @ 12:50 PM
What Snowflake says holds true. Don’t be afraid to cut into a piece of vocal audio and chop it to bits and retime it. It’s something that you’ll need to do if you work with rap a lot as well ^^;;