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"What about original material?"

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permalink   Tue, Jun 27, 2006 @ 12:57 PM
ccMixter is not your typical music site. Not just because it is sponsored by Creative Commons and what it stands for in general, but because it specializes in remixes.

We encourage artists who produce original material to post submissions of their work to ccMixter in order to make more music available for legal sampling. However, you should submit individual tracks of your work (a cappella vocals as well as instrumentals) to give the producer or DJ a richer, more creative chance at reworking your material.

Because ccMixter is a remix site, it is not the best place to upload your back catalog. Fully mixed tracks uploaded to ccMixter are rarely even listened to leave alone remixed. For the last year, LESS THAN 1% of fully mixed tracks have ever been sampled, as opposed over 85% of a cappellas.

Creative Commons also sponsors and partners with other sites (such as the archive.org, opsound and Our Media) where it is more than appropriate and you are strongly encouraged to put all of your material into the Commons.

Occasionally the section that allows for fully mixed original tracks is shut down due to rampant abuse. Song-spamming in the form of uploading RIAA copyrighted tracks goes on a lot more than most folks realize (we are generally pretty quick to find, delete and ban these uploads). Sometimes, however, the spam becomes overwhelming so we close it down to give ourselves a break.
remaxim
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permalink   Wed, Mar 26, 2008 @ 5:28 AM
Hi,

I truly can understand your point. This site is just too good to endanger it.

But I think there is still another way to solve that problem: If you only allow to release a hole track if every line of the mix is also available separately, I don’t think that you will get too much problems with RIAA songs, as their stuff usually isn’t available in separate lines.

I know that this decision is quite old and it probably really helped to concentrate on the important stuff, instead of searching for RIAA tracks. It would be nice if you could think about my idea, as there would be much more stuff released that could be remixed.

bye,
remaxim
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Mar 26, 2008 @ 12:11 PM
If someone uploads the individual tracks to a song in the samples section we will take the fully mixed version too.
 
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permalink   remaxim Wed, Mar 26, 2008 @ 12:21 PM
thanks, great to know :)
I think I ll upload some stuff then
 
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permalink   remaxim Wed, Mar 26, 2008 @ 1:17 PM
I just realized why I thought that this way of uploading stuff isn’t OK. If someone wants to upload samples there stands “DO NOT UPLOAD FULLY MIXED TRACKS” and “Fully mixed tracks will be deleted without further notice”. If you really want to accept fully mixed tracks, as long as the single lines are available, you maybe should change those lines a little bit.
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Mar 26, 2008 @ 1:34 PM
I’m afraid unambiguous is not an option.
 
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permalink   Loveshadow Thu, Mar 27, 2008 @ 1:33 PM
Personally i think keep a remix site just that. Myspace and such places give a platform for showcasing fully mixed songs.

This site gives you some great features to link to your submissions. So submit the stems of your original for remix here and post a link to a web page elsewhere with the full mix on it.

In my experience though many people are not concerned with the original. If it’s going to be a remix what has the original got to do with it.?

Consider also that even a few megabytes of space turns into gigs with mixed material and if push came to shove i would rather have an acapella track to work with than a mix i would not want to listen to taking up server space.
 
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permalink   gurdonark Thu, Mar 27, 2008 @ 9:24 PM
I’m in general agreement. I’d rather someone load the ocmponents of the song, along with a tag in the text “complete song available at [link]”. It’s not a big deal,
but I like the relative purity of this site being for remixes, and other, cool places being for complete tracks.
 
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permalink   fourstones Fri, Mar 28, 2008 @ 5:16 PM
I have to say I have found it useful on occasion, esp. in the case of pells that have, er, unique phrasing, to refer to the original.
spinmeister
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permalink   Fri, Mar 28, 2008 @ 3:34 PM
I generally prefer that ccMixter.org remain rather dedicated to long distance collaboration and remixing.

However, Victor’s ccHost software seems so much sweeter in the non commercial space than something like archive.org’s audio section. And I even like ccHost better than the advertising overrun dot com bubbly myspaces, bebo’s and all of their clones, which have as an objective to make their founders wealthy rather than doing so for artists.

In addition ccMixter also is (so far mostly) a community of peers rather than a fan site (of course this could change over time).

So there’s nothing quite like ccMixter for original music, and sometimes I wish there was. While technically one could achieve this easily enough by creating another ccHost software based site, it is quite a bit of work to hover over the site like VS does here, and would also potentially cost quite a bit in hosting / networking fees.

That all being said, the argument can be made that the key differentiating sweetspot for ccMixter is artistic collaboration (remixing being a form of sequential collaboration). And without collaboration it just wouldn’t be the same, even if the software is.
 
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permalink   fourstones Fri, Mar 28, 2008 @ 5:01 PM
recipe for making a wildly popular music site:

- force registration for downloading
- allow back catalog uploads of fully mixed material
- cross promote with businesses looking to plug their products

The things that makes this site unique are the things that (probably) prevents that kind of wild popularity. I’ve said it before: for me the measure of success (in no particular order) is a) the quality of the remixes and b) the reuse of the music made here through video, podcasts, etc. and c) the atmosphere between community members.

re collab: For my money the serial thing seems to be working pretty great. Last year I buckled from user pressure to add the parallel collab feature but I still think the sample/pell -> remix formula is the one that works best here.

ftr in order for ccHost to scale to the archive.org level it would require (yet another) bottom up rewrite and I’m not sure a lot of the itch scratching features that we have here would survive.
 
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permalink   remaxim Sat, Mar 29, 2008 @ 3:28 AM
I m quite new to this site and I have to admit that I really love it. And after I thought about this hole original material stuff once again, I think ccmixter should stay as it is. Opening it for original material could possibly destroy the hole feeling of this site, even the hole collaboration idea.

On the other side I wish that there would be something similar to ccmixter for original material. There is not much to add to spinmeisters post, I just want to explain why I don’t like the other sites. To post my music on the sites mentioned above feels like posting them on some random webspace, maybe I am quite unfair right now, but those don’t seem to be that serious to me (probably just because of the way they look like). Soundclick is just too full amd getting some people to listen to my music would take lots of time spending in the forums and advertising my music. And it’s also not only for CC music. The closest thing I found so far is jamendo.org. My problems with that site are that they demand to post hole albums and the community is nothing I want to become part of as they always fight against each other with stuff like revenge reviews. Their “community” is also split up in nationalities/languages and that makes many things worse to me, as I m no big fan of german music(ans). It would be great to have some serious site for uploading original material with a good community, but the only way to achieve such a good community seems to be not allowing original material.
DJ.E-State
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permalink   Sat, Apr 19, 2008 @ 3:49 PM
Another side of this dicsussion is a question that I was excited about since the very first day on this site.
Should hip-hop beats (without acappella) be considered as ‘fully mixed tracks’ and therefore not to be uploaded on cc or they are closer to samples and can be submitted as samples?
 
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permalink   teru Sat, Apr 19, 2008 @ 4:29 PM
“a question that I was excited about since the very first day on this site.”

Calm down. (just kidding)

I’ve seen them in both sections. Just my opinion but I would think the more minimal it is the more it’s a sample. I suspect it would also depend on length too. Just as an arbitrary example, anything longer than a minute would start to come across as a full mixed track. (?)

Also worth noting is that mixed samples don’t get used much from what I’ve noticed. User modifiable samples are definitely more popular.
 
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permalink   duckett Sat, Apr 19, 2008 @ 7:29 PM
Just to throw my own two cents in… If someone’s looking for a texture, or is less worried about bpm or key than they are something that just grabs them as useful or fun, they might play with something with more than one instrument etc. However, a short drums-only loop will probably be used more often than some 30-sec. sample complete with bassline, melody, etc. I’m just speaking for myself, but the less stretching artifacts, or other obvious signs of manipulation, the better (unless I’m going for a deliberately mangled sound)…
 
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permalink   DJ.E-State Sun, Apr 20, 2008 @ 12:24 AM
‘excuse my french’ (english in this case :) )
But how could you notice them in both sections? It’s possible to find a track as a sample, but you even won’t be able to upload a beat as a mixed track, cause you need to point to material that you remixed. So if you used no material from this site you can’t upload it. Possible workaround here is to have some kind of a ‘dummy ’ sample which is actually 5-10 secs of silence to be remixed every time you want to upload hip-hop beat for future use by MCs )))
 
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permalink   teru Sun, Apr 20, 2008 @ 2:23 AM
“But how could you notice them in both sections?”

Both as in the samples and the “full mix” in the sample section. Not talking about the remixes. : )
 
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permalink   remaxim Mon, Apr 21, 2008 @ 11:36 AM
uploading hip-hop beats is allowed? I didn’t know that… that’s great! It doesn’t only give me the opportunity to publish some stuff(I m still learning remixing ;) ), it also gives me the opportunity to listen to more of E-States work .

To be honest I m kind of waiting to hear what fourstones is saying to that uploading beats stuff …
 
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permalink   DJ.E-State Mon, Apr 21, 2008 @ 4:43 PM
E-State’s stuff is already out there ;)
 
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permalink   teru Mon, Apr 21, 2008 @ 6:34 PM
 
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permalink   fourstones Thu, Apr 24, 2008 @ 5:51 PM
Quote: remaximTo be honest I m kind of waiting to hear what fourstones is saying to that uploading beats stuff …

Please do not be confused about this: whatever teru says is the law.
 
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permalink   remaxim Fri, Apr 25, 2008 @ 4:40 AM
Quote: fourstoneswhatever teru says is the law.

Thanks, I didn’t know that. Are there some more people I have to know about?

btw: teru, I hope I didn’t do you wrong … the only admin I knew about was fourstones.
 
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permalink   teru Fri, Apr 25, 2008 @ 10:19 AM
No problem remaxim.

Thanks fourstones.
kthugha
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permalink   Fri, Jun 4, 2010 @ 4:56 PM
This hits on a question I just posted regarding Secret Mixter. I want people to be able to remix my songs. But most of my music is original, terribly obscure, and not stuff I have remixed via ccMixter. So I have started uploading full versions of my tracks along with stems, so that people have that available in case it is warranted. The remixes I submit are not representative of the music I write, and I think it’s fair to represent myself the way I see myself. I am not looking to promote my own music - I do music as a hobby and relaxation method and am not self-promoting (I think I have 50 listeners in the world, and that might be 30 too many). I just want to offer what I have to give to the remix community, and I think offering my original mix of a song along with the stems will help frame the sounds/tracks/stems/samples I have to offer. To be really blunt about it, I really don’t care who’s listening, I’m going to keep writing and making my tunes available, so there.

The reason all the pells get sampled is the fact that vocal performance is a more unique talent than musical composition. Nothing any of us “producers” can do about it, it’s just a matter of ccMixter deciding who they will support or not.
 
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permalink   Admiral Bob Sat, Jun 5, 2010 @ 8:36 AM
Remixing stuff is why we’re all here. The “What about original material” thing refers to those cases where people upload finished, mastered pieces. If you read Victor’s CCMixter memoir:

http://fourstones.net/ccmix...

You’ll note that what happened to such tracks is that they were never remixed, which kind of defeated the purpose of what the site’s for. Without stems there’s not much you can do with a mastered piece without EQing the hell out of it. But if you’re posting the stems, then you’re not doing that. So no need to worry.

As far as getting your stuff remixed, I think you’ll find what works the best is either partial songs (incomplete arrangements), or small 1-2 minute pieces.

If you look at one of the most remixed guys here, Panu Moon, he’ll post a sketch of a song, with just guitar and voice, and anywhere from four to ten people are on that within a month.

When I post partial instrumental songs (Fourths, Groove in D, NH, There, Baby Bird Acoustic) these always get remixed. However, whenever I’ve posted a full piece (Amblin, Baby Bird), nothing happens.

I suspect the reason for that is that if you contribute a fully realized piece of art, other listeners/remixers don’t see room for their own vision.
Supercollide
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permalink   Tue, Jul 12, 2011 @ 3:28 PM
You said that it would be a good idea to uplaod original material but i didnt see an option for that under “submit files”
 
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permalink   Supercollide Tue, Jul 12, 2011 @ 3:50 PM
Besides, would original material go under sample?
 
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permalink   Scomber Tue, Jul 12, 2011 @ 6:26 PM
Original material is great for providing new material to the remixing community on ccmixter - but don’t upload fully mixed tracks - upload the stems so a remixer has room to “paint their own picture”.
Yes -you would upload as a sample, then subsequent stems using the add button that appears after your first file is uploaded.
Welcome to ccM!
 
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permalink   septahelix Wed, Jul 13, 2011 @ 7:08 PM
I actually like when someone uploads a complete track with all the stems. I wanted to do some projects where I actually use full mixes too. It’s also useful to be able to hear the original mix in its entirety.
 
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permalink   wnm Sat, Nov 5, 2011 @ 2:14 AM
Quote: Scomber don’t upload fully mixed tracks - upload the stems so a remixer has room to “paint their own picture”.


You are right.
But my point is that a singer could be inspired by a full instrumental mix and make a great song.
We all add musics on the pellas from this board, singers should be aloud to add their vocals on full mixes.
 
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permalink   SackJo22 Sat, Nov 5, 2011 @ 8:39 AM
Singers do that all the time! A lot of my remixes (especially my early remixes) started out that way - One for Me, After the War, In/Out… .Ciggi Burns, Scomber, Narva9, Kaer Trouz are just a few others I can think of off the top of my head that also do that.
 
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permalink   wnm Sun, Nov 6, 2011 @ 1:50 AM
Thanks for replying.
So, I could post a full instrumental mix on the sample section (full mix sub-section) only if I upload all the parts right?

Another question please :what is a “Tubed BY You” mix exactly? Who is aloud to post on that section and what? Sorry but I didn’t find any info about that.
 
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permalink   Snowflake Thu, Jan 12, 2012 @ 1:37 PM
Yes, you could post a full instrumental mix a a sample if you upload the individual stems.

the Tubed By You remix project was a remix event we held last year and the submission window was closed a while ago. however, if you tag your track “music_for_film” it should end up in the right search results.
 
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permalink   wnm Sat, Mar 17, 2012 @ 5:45 AM
I’m late to this….thanks a lot for the clarification.
sindee
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permalink   Fri, Sep 28, 2012 @ 7:17 AM
Very informative! I learned so much from it especially about original works.