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Loops=loser/Samples = Super Star

§įǷǷƔ�?ʗʯǷ
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permalink   Fri, Oct 19, 2007 @ 9:27 PM
How mamy out here in the mixter comunnity agree with the title? I for one make all my beats. we all know that if you make all your own beats it takes some time, but then you can claim it as your own.

My thought is this: loops are a cheap way to creating music.
I am not saying that anybody that has used loops is lame at creating something beautiful cus then I would be stripping you of the title “producer”. but like me Im a on the part time music maker and I dont use loops, due once agian to the fact thats its a cheap way to making music.”any nods to my thought?”
FGrn Grn
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permalink   Tue, Oct 23, 2007 @ 9:40 AM
I dont know if someone has said this already, but the soundfonts or sounds you fed into your midi arranger were created by someone.

At the end of the day while we’re still worrying about whether loops and samples should be respected as real music, someone is using those loops/samples to express him or herself and has reached many fans who get something from his/her music. Isnt that what matters the most?
Aamu
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permalink   Sat, Oct 20, 2007 @ 2:31 AM
It depends so much on the genre. For some types of music you really need the repetative loops.

I’m a looper, although I often create my own loops, or heavily tweak somebody elses. I believe that the way I use loops define my sound very much, and I don’t find that a negative thing at all.

Loops may be a cheap way to make music, but that doesn’t necessarily make the music built on loops cheap. (I think It takes me more time time adjusting the loops than creating sample patterns, but it’s quite hard to say as I haven’t gone with only samples for years.)
gurdonark
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permalink   Sat, Oct 20, 2007 @ 2:40 AM
I don’t really see the issue as “loops v. samples”, as both terms are just ways of expressing stylized forms of manipulations of sound. I’m not opposed to simple ways to make music—but to me, originality is the most important thing, whether accomplished by making—and warping—loops or by sequencing samples.
fourstones
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permalink   Sat, Oct 20, 2007 @ 12:11 PM
I make all my own instruments by hand from scratch material I mine from the Earth. I’ll kill a cat (or possum if available) and cure its guts for guitar strings, I’ll smelt the metal for fittings on my home made piano, right down to fabricating the silicon for the computer I’m typing this on.

Anything less and you have no business calling yourself a musician.
 
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permalink   §įǷǷƔ�?ʗʯǷ Sat, Oct 20, 2007 @ 5:51 PM
Thanks for the smile.
 
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permalink   FGrn Grn Sun, Oct 21, 2007 @ 7:48 AM
Quote: fourstonesI make all my own instruments by hand from scratch material I mine from the Earth. I’ll kill a cat (or possum if available) and cure its guts for guitar strings, I’ll smelt the metal for fittings on my home made piano, right down to fabricating the silicon for the computer I’m typing this on.

Anything less and you have no business calling yourself a musician.


HAHAHA…that made my day
 
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permalink   duckett Tue, Oct 23, 2007 @ 1:56 AM
HAH! I simply have spent years in a hidden monastery, training my mind to telekinetically vibrate air molecules to the frequencies you hear as “music”, and reach deep within your servers with my mental powers, to alter the 1’s and 0’s to reflect this “music”.
The mystic fruit of these efforts will become known to you puny humans shortly…
teru
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permalink   Sat, Oct 20, 2007 @ 1:21 PM
 
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permalink   Nitropox@CCmixter Sun, Oct 21, 2007 @ 6:27 AM
haha :D
MC Jack in the Box
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permalink   Sat, Oct 20, 2007 @ 11:23 PM
so i guess these guys, guys like henry kaiser, are losers.

personally, i think your thread title is pretty short sighted and retarded. i’ve been playing original music twice as long as i’ve been remixing stuff, including loops. i really don’t see your point. songwriting requires much more than the resources needed to create the actual music, it requires a sense of arrangement, key, meter, and vision. what’s better, some chucklehead throwing together a bunch of stock loops without much effort or some mediocre “musician” who doesn’t perfect their technique playing something out of time, or singing out of key. you make your own loops? wonderful. how hard is it to record myself pounding my fist on the desk. not hard at all. how hard is it to do it well? probably more difficult than i care to find out.

a cheap way of making music? hell yes. and what a fine thing it is. all the great folks that have donated their “cheap” source here, i really want to say thanks!

because frankly, i’m cheap. really cheap. free even.
 
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permalink   §įǷǷƔ�?ʗʯǷ Sun, Oct 21, 2007 @ 6:27 AM
Listen my title does not mean literally loops = loser, but it does mean it is a cheap short cut to making something you in the long run wanna say I created that.
If I wrote a poem, but instead of the inspirational words coming from my heart, I looked online or in library books at other poems and took out what I liked and put it all together and said “I wrote that?, well that wouldn’t be true or an original work: simply because I just placed together a bunch of someone else’s works.

Man can live for about forty days without food, and about three days without water, about eight minutes without air … but only for one second without hope.

-Hal Lindsey


Man can live for about forty days without food, and about three days without water, about eight minutes without air … but only for one second without Music.

-Sippy Cup
“Remix then?”
 
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permalink   fourstones Sun, Oct 21, 2007 @ 12:35 PM
I quote myself

Quote: This line of “it just doesn’t take talent” is a straw man that (being much older than you) I have heard many many many many many times. When instruments (and Dylan) went electric, when The Beatles starting using synths, when synths were pre-packaged with patches, when samplers came onto the scene, when they became commidity instruments, when vinyl DJs (righfully) caleld themselves musicians, when ACID 2.0 became popular, on and on. Shitty musicians who do not express real emotion with music are NOT made better by technology and never will be.

from a different but related context.
*** Topic deleted by author ***
 
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permalink   §įǷǷƔ�?ʗʯǷ Mon, Oct 22, 2007 @ 4:33 PM
Well coming up with the title I had you two in mind, and seeing That I had to get the attention of “short sighted and retarded” folks as your self’s, I am now relaxed and complete knowing I have your short sighted minds on my topic. Where’s your rebuttal on the topic? You showed short sightedness there by “simply? typing “Agreed? and then attacking my ideas.
Your quick with disagreement And I suspect its because Ive must of called you a loser in my “TITLE? , but a little honesty is Ive used them, but now I stay away from them;
just working on my skills.
I draw the picture then I color it, instead of getting a coloring book with pre-drawn pictures to color I am the creator of the book.
I never started this topic for anybody to get offended, so please believe me I am not putting down anybody if you use loops, its just what you like and are comfortable with, Fine with me, fine with you.
Maybe I should’ve spent a little more time when typing out my thoughts, as to cover whole issues, followed by details, and opposite opinions finally summarizing.
 
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permalink   MC Jack in the Box Mon, Oct 22, 2007 @ 6:02 PM
if this is directed to me, i have no idea what you just said.

think of your quote example above as a mix and the words as loops. in your example above, if you had taken all the words and created a coherant and linear and logical sentence with the same words arranged differently, i would have been impressed. but you didn’t. you changed one word and the order is exactly the same. so i’m not impressed. and i’m not impressed with your ability to put together a coherant sentence as written above, but i’m assuming that english is a second language for you, so i’ll let that one go.

all i can say is whatever dude. if you’re a hater because someone takes the easy way, because technology lets them, you’re hating for the wrong reason.
 
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permalink   §įǷǷƔ�?ʗʯǷ Mon, Oct 22, 2007 @ 7:58 PM
NO, NO jack in the box I like you, and miss you, I getting ready to turn the handle on the box to see you…by the way you surely couldn’t understand what I had wrote due to them 3d glasses your rock’n

Seriously though I have no problem with you. Take care man.
 
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permalink   MC Jack in the Box Mon, Oct 22, 2007 @ 8:10 PM
ha, you made me laugh now, so no hard feelings.

honestly sippy, you could have just not referred to one group as “losers”, even if you think the other group as superstars.

to quote my good friend teru…”music, it’s all good. you just gotta listen”.
 
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permalink   teru Mon, Oct 22, 2007 @ 10:35 PM
This thread made me very happy. : )
 
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permalink   teru Mon, Oct 22, 2007 @ 6:22 PM
Troll much?

As an artist you should be able to use anything and everything. Loops, samples, whatever. If it fits, it fits.

There is no discussion here. Just some kind of f—-ed up snobbery on your part.
 
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permalink   §įǷǷƔ�?ʗʯǷ Mon, Oct 22, 2007 @ 7:41 PM
Snobbery? Well that’s far from the actual. I have tons of self made tracks that in my opinion are better than Most of my cc submits, but I cant show case them. O well, and I have a lot of garbage, I have not snobbery, I’m not saying I’m better than you or him even her, I Simply just wanted to engage people of cc mixter to share their thoughts on the topic, but I realize I must of came off wrong to several people and that is fine. They are entitled to express the way the feel about it; however expressing it in a belittling fashion is not the way to go about it.
There are many I would only assume that feel the same way as I do.
You work at Ford or Chevy or even Toyota you’re a line person, you have the responsibility of maintaining the paint process, well your not hand painting those cars, but would you tell everybody you knew and seen that you actually painted them cars?
(Well that’s my third analogy )
Point is that worker is using what he has around him…..robotic painting machines to get his job done, but yes sure he could say he painted them cars, but in reality he has not even come close to painting them. Loop artists are different, the take a bunch of loops from different genres and place them in a precise order to form a complex sound of harmony which turns out great, but its just a puzzle, sure there is effects, slicing , editing, time being spend, but start from scratch, and then claim your self a true Sipper of the Cup.
 
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permalink   J.Lang Mon, Oct 22, 2007 @ 8:56 PM
Loop artists are different, the take a bunch of loops from different genres and place them in a precise order to form a complex sound of harmony which turns out great, but its just a puzzle, sure there is effects, slicing , editing, time being spend, but start from scratch, and then claim your self a true Sipper of the Cup.

With all due respect, It is an art form. It takes great imagination, patients and creativity. IMO it does not cheapen. Look at the many artist who get inspiration from other artist. Someone else may inspire you to create something, do you or should you credit that other person? When i hear a loop I’m inspired by it. When we use loops or samples on ccMixter we give others credit for the use of that loop or samples. When you use free loops or samples from a cd of samples that you have purchased do you give the makers of the cd credit? The first loop i ever jacked was James Brown’s Funky President, but James didn’t play that drum loop. Yet he gets paid if i want to use it today. I can’t get that feel on my MPC, but that’s the feel i wanted. If you make a beat and are talented enough to get that feel ( funky president) without sampling it; are you inspired, or are you sampling without jacking it? It’s still taking from that original source. Most everything we hear today comes from somewhere else.
Like I said before….jack it, sample it, be inspired by it, enhance it, remix it, but most of all have fun with it.

OK….who am i gonna remix/sample/ be inspired by on this secretmixter mix?
J.Lang
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permalink   Mon, Oct 22, 2007 @ 7:40 PM
Just to add my 2 cents.
I make music for me, & for the simple joy of it. Sometimes i use samples and sometimes i don’t. I’ve been making beats for many years, but i can’t always create a certain feel that i may want. By looping a sample and adding my touch to it does not make my mix any cheaper. I believe that i’ve added more or maybe improved on the original.
It is my belief that if you add or enhance, you also create. I could be wrong, i’ve been wrong about more than a few things in my 47 plus years on this planet. ( I thought Milli Vanilli would be around for years and make great music, boy was i wrong )
Bottom line…..who cares… make music with loops or no loops, just have fun doing it. I’m sure you all have more important things to worry about. I’m more worried about my Secret Mixter mix.
 
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permalink   §įǷǷƔ�?ʗʯǷ Mon, Oct 22, 2007 @ 7:53 PM
Indeed Secret mixter……..Tick Tock :),
I also agree with your statements lang. I just wanted to express the complete process from start to finish, I can throw a track in the cd player (that I made) that just has some loops from a cd I bought and say with out right honesty That’s my Sh*7 because its not, I didn’t get that flow moving with my god given skills, I just stood on some one else’s shoulders and put together a puzzle, but then; however the manipulation of the loops does give me credit to the quality of the work, so yes I can only come to the final conclusion that loops vs. samples still only = 60% artist*LOOPS…….98% artist*Samples.
But mad thanks for droppn a honest line, with out taken me out :D
Nitropox@CCmixter
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permalink   Tue, Oct 23, 2007 @ 3:13 AM
Music does not know any kinds of limitations. There are no borders, this is not a sport game.

You have rights to state your personal opinion, its fine. Seems we do like different things, because i love Roni Size, i like listen to FatBoy and Thievery Corp. and many many other artists who use to give to shape thier music thx to the loops. I would never call em losers, rather the superstars, everything depends on your personal taste.
 
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permalink   theo22 Mon, Mar 29, 2010 @ 5:35 AM
HI Code,

Do you have a zip file or a sample folder for your remix for Black is the night remik. if so please email ikonikproductions@yahoo.co.uk
duckett
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permalink   Tue, Oct 23, 2007 @ 3:25 AM
I played bass and sang in a live band before going near electronic-based stuff. When I did take the digital plunge, I used to get all bent out of shape about unoriginality; all i had to make noise with was my 4-track, M1, EZVision and my Mac LC.

I don’t remember off-hand how many drumkits there were on the M1, but the variety was not exactly endless, and back in the early 90’s, every friggin’ commercial, TV show (seinfeld, anyone?) or cheap movie soundtrack used the M1 for EVERYTHING, the way DX-7’s were everywhere before that. I can ALWAYS pick out M1 sounds on a track (Freddy Mercury used the M1 quite a lot on Queen’s last album).

I digress… I grew to HATE the M1’s drumkits for being un-punchy and obvious, for being so “M1-y”. I found myself pitch-bending the kits an octave up or down, using extreme FX settings, anything to get it to sound different. I hated the idea of someone listening to my track and thinking, “Oh. M1.”
I got so caught up in trying to sound different, i was neglecting what i was trying to say musically in the first place.

Going out with a field mic to the remotest corners of the world, in order to build a sound library no one else has, is all well and good, but what do you make with it? Sheer sonic novelty can only carry a listener’s intrest so far, just as slick production can’t hide a poverty of musical ideas (insert K-Fed joke here).

Everyone is at different places in their creation of music. Someone like, say, Loveshadow, who is very experienced and knowledgeable about music theory, arrangement, engineering, and mastering, could probably go through my page and carpetbomb my tracks with point-by-point critiques about everything that’s wrong with them in those four areas, if he wanted to (I hope not, even if I learned something from it), AS LONG AS MY INTENT WAS CLEAR.

But unless my track’s description was wayyy off (like earnestly calling “Oh Lord” a frenzied blend of Western swing/speedmetal disco) he can’t sit there and write “beautifully executed, but your idea behind this remix sucks.”

I like to think i’m pretty eclectic when it comes to taste/genre, but there’s stuff i either haven’t to enough of to have an informed opinion, or i’ve heard so much of it i’m burnt out on it, and can’t be objective any more.
Yes, sampled loops can be tired and lazy; there was a point where i wanted deeply to find and flay the next jerk who regurgitated another track using either the drum intro to “When the Levee Breaks” by Led Zeppelin, or “Ashley’s Roachclip” by the Soul Searchers. But to me, it’s all music- I have to understand the INTENT of the artist before I’m gonna get all up in their grill about what i don’t care for.
Shutting up now.(hops off soapbox)
-END RANT-
Analog By Nature
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permalink   Tue, Oct 23, 2007 @ 11:43 AM
all music is made of varied loops, live instruments or not. so it’s should be more like

Lazy Artist = Loser
Creative and Productive = Superstar

look at moby for instance, nothing but loop’s layered and layered, and yet.. superstar…..

just a thought…
§įǷǷƔ�?ʗʯǷ
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permalink   Tue, Oct 23, 2007 @ 12:57 PM
I just had a thought, Fourstones one and only review he has ever left me was a mix I did using clarences vocals, now that was the only mix I ever loaded onto cc mixter that I used all loops from someone who created them and sold them, which I did buy, now my point is that Fourstones had felt never the urge to type out something about my other stuff in fact in his review he even stated something along the lines that ” now this is good” meaning the rest of my tracks was garbage or lacked appeal, My Main point its I want to get to the point to where everything I make cause’s that same reaction to people. “DAng this is HOtt” Ive since tookn the track down, because although it was allright, it was not really me.
 
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permalink   fourstones Tue, Oct 23, 2007 @ 3:45 PM
heh, ccMixter “your friendly neighborhood remix therapy site” ;)

your music sounds better when you use loops. how is that not a compliment? (that’s rhetorical) your music would also probably sound better if you hired a professional drummer and producer. so freakin what? You’re not Stevie Wonder. time to move on…
Scrub
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permalink   Sat, Dec 1, 2007 @ 11:47 PM
Music is always going to be derived from an already derived source. If people choose to pull it directly from source, mix and morph it into a beautiful new track. Then I am all for it.
Vidian
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permalink   Tue, Apr 13, 2010 @ 1:12 PM
Other people’s music is my Instrument. Call me what you want. I won’t stop :)
Kamihamiha
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permalink   Thu, Apr 29, 2010 @ 8:57 PM
Remixing is like admitting you got it wrong first time. Lets ban all sampling and looping.

Kidding of course :P
My view on sampling and looping, is that i do both, as well as using real instruments and virtual instruments. Where a guitarist can make a pretty song, I can bend sound and make it sound literally any way i want. If I take a recorded guitar part, reverse it, chop it up and effects process it, then loop it over a drum loop and another guitar loop, does that make me a loser? Or does it mean that ive in fact done more musically than the guitarist that played the original loop?

I’d opt for the latter. However, I don’t do any loop only based work, so i’m safe ;)