I wonder what leads people to rate or not rate.

I try to rate as many songs as I can, because I think part of ratings is the feedback you get from it.

It’s very disappointing to see some songs dragged down by one or two "hater without comment" ratings because they’re only rated a handful of times.

It’s also very disappointing to me when I see some weaker mixes (thinking mainly of my own) get away with a 4.5 or 5 because there’s literally only one or two ratings.

What makes you decide whether or not to rate a song?

*meow*

P.S. I just wish people would rate more, with or without comment.

For me the ‘low rating without comment’ offers no constructive criticism whatsoever, and honestly I thought that is one of the things this community was about. It’s crap like that which makes me wanna throw diss tracks up on ppl…

* don’t worry none will be posted here *

- I know I’m over sensitive about it, but honestly music is somethin I take very seriously, even when I’m crackin jokes with it. -

Quote: For me the ‘low rating without comment’ offers no constructive criticism whatsoever, and honestly I thought that is one of the things this community was about. It’s crap like that which makes me wanna throw diss tracks up on ppl…

* don’t worry none will be posted here *

- I know I’m over sensitive about it, but honestly music is somethin I take very seriously, even when I’m crackin jokes with it. -

I understand completely. Tossing a 1 or 2 on someone without explanation doesn’t do anything for them.

Personally I write reviews when I find the motivation to write them, to be honest. Usually it’s that a song catches my attention somehow in the listening, sometimes it’s because I sharply disagree with the ratings they have. However if I felt a song was a one, I would certainly post why it just wasn’t working for me.

I just find the ratings to be very baffling sometimes. I can get fantastic feedback from people and end up with a 3 or 3.5, and other times I can get fairly critical feedback and end up with a 4.5 or such. I really think that is a symptom of not enough ratings being chosen though.

Weak mixes that are overrated from only having a couple votes would get more accurate numbers if more people rated more often. The opposing principle is true for underrated songs with only a couple ratings.

*meow*

We got "bombed" today by someone who uploaded a new track and then gave everybody else below them in the listings a ‘1’ in quick succession. It’s very rare but as the site gets more popular we can expect it to happen every now and then. Not a huge deal, if you know this happened and I don’t catch it, just let me know.

As of an hour ago I checked in new code that bans certain users from giving any ratings just in case they abuse the privelage of anonymous ratings. I will probably also publish the average rating that people give in their user profile.

Peace,
VS

- Good idea Vic -

The only problem I see with publishing an artist’s average for ratings given is that it encourages people to leave a lot more 5’s than they might otherwise — which is just plain bad for the site.

Honestly, I think this already done to an extent and it may have the effect of encouraging others to back up their lower rating with a review.

I remember when Source Mag never gave out ‘5 star ratings’ as a Magazine policy for reviewing new albums. It made the 5 that much more of a coveted item.

Quote: The only problem I see with publishing an artist’s average for ratings given is that it encourages people to leave a lot more 5’s than they might otherwise — which is just plain bad for the site.

This might not hurt, you could just add a new metric…

Points above or below average.

Calculate as how many points above or below a persons average rating he rated this song. Run through rater by rater, add them all up and divide by the number of raters.

all the best,

drew

rater = rating user if it is unclear.

ok, look guys, I’m almost sorry I proposed it because this just isn’t that huge a problem. We had one *ick hit us yesterday, that problem has been solved, it’s over.

Meanwhile, here’s a breakdown of the ratings:

[overall_average] => 4.360753
[all5s] => 4718
[all4s] => 1784
[all3s] => 771
[all2s] => 300
[all1s] => 183

If there is a problem of ratings scores on the site it’s that people are WAY too generous with 5’s.

You guys can whine all you want about haters on the site but the numbers don’t back that up.

More ratings period (whatever the score) per upload will reflect the overall numbers better.

Victor, posting ratings stats may be a way to encourage users to rate more often, if there were, say, a rating system for rating? Maybe a statistical thing to guide towards an average rating range with a given spread, something like that.

As far as my own reason for not commenting more, I don’t feel comfortable with my own writing (for one thing). With ratings, often I can’t decide between four and five if I think its something like a 4.5. And of course there’s always the taste factor, everyone’s got their own favorite sound.

yeah the numbers inflation/deflation works both ways. Perhaps rating and posting can be tied similar to
other sites’ approaches where users can not vote/rate if they don’t have a certain number of posts, they also can not vote/rate without leaving a post (once they have reached the minimum number which allows voting/rating). Posts also have to be of a certain length or they aren’t allowed.

This encourages the community to be more proactive in responses and response length and depth. I’m not saying that is the exact way to do it but it would encourage the community to be more interactive and cooperative as opposed to passive. Tying features together such as uploads allowed verses posts so that if you listen to another users tracks and post then you earn more upload credits. Other possible features are voting/rating can be set to anonymous or visible by the end user.

Don’t get me wrong I enjoy being a part of this community…I’ve just been raised to always think of ways to improve and not be satisfied with status quo so it is in my nature to question and improve. Your doing a great job with the site serious! Just some ideas to encourage community interaction and participation.

(sorry if my last post seemed pissy, it’s only that way because, well, I was feeling pissy… — for non-US observers that’s called "the LA excuse" and is always some variation of "I flaked because I flaked")

The bottom line to the numeric ratings is that no matter how the site works, how intricate the statistical algorithm, how sophisticated the review quota system I put into place: people will be devistated when they get a 3.

And a 1 rating causes shreaks and huge consternation in the community and kicks off threads like this.

What’s a lowly admin to do? ;)

My attitude is if you’re not sure whether to give a 4 or 5? Do the site a favor and give it a 3 because when visitors come to site and see a 4.5 out of 5.0 they expect (rightfully so) that it’s a pretty great piece of music — as in: this upload is 90% better than all the music on the web.

If it isn’t, they are never coming back to this site. Ever.

We have some tracks on this site that I would match with any site, any song. But 4,718 of them? As my mom would say: I don’t sink so.

Quote: there’s always the taste factor, everyone’s got their own favorite sound.

C, there’s nothing but the taste factor; I guess we could do the thing of breaking it down to a separate rating for production, creativity, environmental correctness, etc. but I hesitate to make rating an upload MORE work for the user. As long as it’s an honest rating, I think that’s all that matters.

I see myself as one who has posted things that deserve 4s and 5s and who has also posted one thing that deserved a 1 (the worst LDB remix ever, an attempt at comedy I pulled down the same day) and a group of things that could reasonably be given a 2, and lots of things that are pure "3". I also post a lot of things that one reasonable person will see as a 1 and another reasonable person might see as a 4 or 5.

I frankly don’t worry very much when someone doesn’t get what I am doing, because others do, and I am more about collaboration and sharing than "real fame". I don’t aim for a universal appeal, but instead to ply my skills in search of a particular set of goals and visions. I am largely what I’ve set out to be, because I had a particular goal in mind.

People are just all different. If I made editors’ picks, my editors’ picks would differ from those on the board, and of course some things I find fascinating others here dislike. That’s just normal. I’d set up my own board if that mattered to me.


Still, lately, I have noticed a few aberrant 1 ratings arise, not only as to my work, but as to the work of mixers I consider better at mixing than I am.
But what does that matter, really? I am not sure I have any skills, but if I do, I see my skills as less in the realm of remixing skills, and more in the realm of creative use of samples in pursuit of a particular ambient vision. So I don’t worry if others don’t share my vision.

I have gotten at least 1 from a rater on a mix (indeed, 2 quite lately) that frankly could not by any stretch of my imagination have merited a 1. But, really, what is an anonymous rating? At every popular internet site, one is going to get people visiting who have very different visions of music than others do. Also, as any site gets popular, there will be people who will give low ratings to "pull the chain" of the folks on the board. There will also be people of good heart and integrity who just hate a particular work of music. I don’t think that there’s much point in getting too upset, except for the type of thing that Victor pointed out, when people "carpet bomb" low ratings.

I’m human, and I mind a little when people give a negative rating without contructive feedback.
But really, the only time I get irritated by anonymous 1s when, as happened recently, a 13 year old getting started in mixing posts a credible but not amazing synth sample, a 3 sample, and gets a 1 for a sample that was not really bad at all. Call me protective about stuff like that. It is a matter of taste, after all. But I hate to see people needlessly bashed as having done bad work when they only did mediocre work.

When the site switched to anonymous ratings, my original intent was to never award stars, because
I foresaw this kind of thing would arise. Then I changed my mind, and began to award stars, so that the artificially low ratings would not predominate.

But really, there’s never a way for perfect ratings to occur on this type of board. There’s always going to be too many high ratings among regulars, and a minority of folks who like to "troll" low ratings for fun. It’s all such a matter of taste anyway.

When I first began to post here, I posted mixes that by and large were less integrated, more noisy, and
arguably a bit edgier than my current things. They usually got lower ratings, but they more often resulted in e mail contacts from people off the board than is currently the case. My point is that there’s a lot of "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" going on.

The only thing I regret? Getting my feelings hurt once because someone pointed out a valid EQ flaw I could not hear at home, but did it in a "Christ, man!" kind of fashion, which embarrassed me.
But what I regret is not the comment but that I pulled down all my then-mixes, for which I now have to work to refigure the attribution info, and which I wish I had left on the board.

So I say "new site tweaks for abuses"? Good. Much to worry over? No.

(actually, yea, that was my ‘christ man’ - although I remember it as ‘jeez man’ — and it was a crazy clipping piece that almost ripped the cones right out of my speakers ;) sorry, I probably have a strength but my diplomacy, um, is a work in progress)

good post g, and I think it highlights one of the reasons the numeric ratings thing is a no-win from an admin/coder point of view: it’s 99% emotion. After a year and a half of playing around with it there’s just no code that I can write that will help people get over a ‘2’ rating.

When I introduced the ‘one-click’ ratings a few months ago the over number of ratings went up dramatically (about 10x !) so you may be seeing more 1’s but not in relation to the other ratings. And how come a 5 is never "aberant"? ;)

Quote: [h]ow come a 5 is never "aberrant"? ;)

Thanks for the reply, Victor.

I will now make a stark and compelling admission against interest—I personally have been the fortunate recipient of more than one aberrant "5".

I agree that no moderator or code-writer can "write around" the reviews issue, because there’s no code for "2 balm".

The key is for the people who care about this community to work to make it a real and useful place.

CCmixter is a place where one can find open minds and
good insights. So long as that continues, nobody can leave a stray "1" or a stray "5" and ruin that.
Like all such communities, it’s just a matter of the good apples keeping things alive.