I think having the “Collaboration” feature on this site has been a distraction.

It doesn’t make the case for the Commons weaker per se, but it doesn’t highlight the potential as well as the rest of the site does just by doing what it does.

How do you collaborate on ccM? Er, post your pellas baby (or drum samples or brass parts) and wait for the unexpected to happen.

It’s not like the Commons Sample Pool model hasn’t panned out lol.

the proposed replacement:

I love what essesq has done with the ‘collab’ feature. She made it into a semi-private sandbox where she could preview works and get comments from a close knit group of people she wanted to share with before going public with the music. That makes sense as a feature on the site and I should be able to morph the current ‘collab’ feature into the ‘sandbox’ feature easily enough.

OK, your turn.
VS

My sister calls the collaboration feature “the kiss of death”. ; )

Personally my success rate for collaborations has been around 10%. Which is discouraging.

I agree, it needs to morph into something else.

Ehhhhhhh (pause, long pause)… I thought I had a good idea, however (next long pause)..I have had a change of heart. Sorry VS. One feature of the collab thingy in the software is that it e-mails whenever anyone posts to the discussion. This means potentially a lot of e-mails that may or may not directly interest the recipient in particular. Yes we all would like to live in a la la land where we were the center of all attention (or our little creative incubators were) but actually people do have other stuff going on and rather than being useful this feature is a pain in the butt (no offense). I already knocked one of my collaborators off the list to spare him the e-mails.

I started that collab so that I could have the convenience of uploading stuff to my trusted team of advisors all at once rather than e-mailing them one by one. The thing about the team is that each one is there for a different reason so their advise ideally comes from different angles. Where they might repeat it is a waste of their time to read what they would have said. Also the advice actually requires more intricate communication that occurs in a forum thread. So the conversation leaves the message board and goes e-mail anyway.

Lastly I am not doing a heck of a lot musically so the thing is just languishing anyway.

I have a theory that most of what goes on here in terms of cross pollination takes place in micro-communities that mixters develop amongst each other. The broader community is a sort of agora where we congregate, but the down and dirty takes place out of sight of the public (as it should be, imho ;-) ). Maybe that was part of my thought process in my use of the collab feature, but in my case it didn’t quite work. I still think that people really do need to communicate one on one. I’d be happy to discuss this further once my feelings of shame and guilt subside (laughs).

yeah I think you’re right. The collaboration thing never quite took off for me either.

The sandbox idea may have some merit in the sense of maybe having the ability to have “draft” uploads which are not part of the generally visible lists, but could be accessed by people who are given the link, or in a special section.

But I’m not even totally enthusiastic about that concept.

So if you decide to kill the feature even without a morph, I wouldn’t be upset.

I’m saying this as someone who has done quite a bit of online collaborating - albeit mostly one-on-one. In the one-on-one case one really doesn’t need a centralized mechanism. One just agrees with one’s collaborator on the mechanism of the day. Also, I often need to send files much more than 10MB in size (multiple tracks of WAV or FLAC).

In the couple of 3way (or more) collaborations I have tried, they had a rough time really getting somewhere, because someone was always too busy (sometimes it was me).

The sweetness of remixing is “sequential” collaboration without having to back-check, ask for permission, etc. You do your thing when it works for you without holding anyone else up or having to please someone else’s musical taste.

Hey Victor,
since teru has outed my thought on the collab feature I’d figure I’d weigh in with some thoughts.

As primarily a writer, it’d be nice if there could be some feature where we could float offer up lyrics and have them attributed to us. I had it happen a couple times…where folks take my lyrics and completely re-sing-mix it. But since I only offered up words and no actual acoustic “stems” they never were attributed to us in an official way.

Just a thought.

Personally I have seen both sides of the coin regarding collaboration features- they either work well and quickly, or languish just taking up bandwidth.
The most successful kinds imo, have been pairs. It seems when the dynamic switches when more than 2 people are working together and can become very difficult/tedious.
There’s also the sort of cliquey aspect to collaborations, especially unpublished ones (I always feel left out due to unresolved childhood issues) that I think doesn’t mirror the sharing aspects of the site.
I wouldn’t object to pulling the switch on this one. I think people will still work together.

so we had set up this big xmas music collaboration area and now it appears to be gone. the stuff i uploaded is still hidden but obviously, i can’t see anyone elses stuff anymore.

oh well. any suggestions?

I’m very surprised by this suddden decision to close this page. Maybe that it’s not become what you were wating for, but when i see the number of collaborators who have opened a project, i can’t say that it’s a real failure. The decision to work at 2, or 10, in an opened, or closed collaboration is, finally, our own decision, but it stays for me an easy way to work and to communicate in a small group.
I suppose that you are actually thinking about a possible development, but how do we do, now, with our works in progress..? I still have the link to access to my project, but my friend can’t do it anymore..!!!

I have mixed feelings about this being dropped.

There are other sites which start from the collaborative angle and do it really well. So there’s a good argument for dropping the feature with that in mind, particularly if it allows the developers to focus on ccM’s strengths.

I don’t think its current incarnation will be missed by the majority, but then it does seem a little odd to cut off those who had found use in it. Is it such a resource hog that it couldn’t be continued as-is until the traffic dropped to zero? I’ve noticed previously how sites tend to add information alerts to the areas concerned when major plumbing is underway or imminent - often adding a link to the support forum for the chance for comment/feedback/appeal.

I wonder if the collaboration feature just ends up raising more questions than answers?

For instance, do we all believe that community-building tools are necessary to create longer term bonds between contributors? Or are we all content with ccM’s do what, when, and with whom you like kind of vibe?

I love to collaborate with people, do so frequently, and always have a good time. I found myself collaborating with mixters long before there was a collaboration section, and will collaborate with mixters long after there is no longer such a section.

I see the entire board as one endless collaboration. Given that view, I’m not sure that the collaboration formal function makes that much difference. I don’t have a strong opinion on this.

I agree that essesq’s use makes sense. Maybe each mixter could have the power to create a “work space”, which could be used as essesq uses it, or for a “collaboration feature” or just as a holding pen for things available for private viewing. So I like the “sandbox” or “work space” idea, because it can also be a “collaboration” feature.

For the record, anyone who ever wants to collaborate with me usually can do so through the intricate device of sending me mixter mail. I’m perpetually longing for readers and for instrumental collaborators, although I think that working with me on the latter is fun but tricky because no matter how good my collaborator’s work can be, it tends to end up getting stuck with a lot of drones.

Happy New Year to all!