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AI and Music: Share Your Thoughts

Kara Square
permalink   Wed, Mar 8, 2023 @ 6:07 AM
Thought I’d start a thread for everyone to discuss AI in music creation…

A great discussion has already started on cube3’s remix “ The day the world ended.” Then Sparky shared the track on Twitter, which I retweeted on ccMixter’s page.

I find this absolutely fascinating. And like Sha said on Twitter, I agree that transparency and regulation will be key. I think talking about this now is important, so I’m very curious…

What are your thoughts?

How do you think ccMixter should handle AI-generated music, AI plugins, AI tools for writing lyrics, etc.?

Have you used any AI tools in your music creation? Which ones?
permalink   Wed, Mar 8, 2023 @ 10:05 AM
Awesome topic, Kara!

I’ve been pondering this for awhile, here’s my two cents:

If you didn’t make it, and it’s not copyrighted, then it’s public domain.
—Technically, the AI made it (or wrote it).
—You have to be a human to copyright anything.

The solution seems to be:
“The music in this stem was written by [name of AI] and is therefore public domain.”

It would be extra cool for remixers to include the AI generated music as a separate stem.

Exceptions could include but aren’t limited to a percentage of changes made.
For example, I use the “random” option on my TB303 clone for loops, and build songs around them. I set the pitch and tempo, and twiddle the knobs as the loop is being repeated.
That’s a pretty significant change from just sampling a loop and distributing it.

Kind regards,
permalink   cube3 Wed, Mar 8, 2023 @ 12:58 PM
There was a topic about an artist generating content with AI, she could indeed not copyright it.

With the technology I use, there is a lot of artistic input by the user. When there is a certain amount of human intervention, it can be copyrighted.

Question is, how much is that certain amount? Would every artist need to provide proof about the creation process itself?
permalink   Kara Square Thu, Mar 9, 2023 @ 8:39 AM
Great questions!
permalink   Kara Square Thu, Mar 9, 2023 @ 8:38 AM
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I hadn’t yet thought about this from a copyright perspective. It’s definitely an important thing to consider.
permalink   Wed, Mar 8, 2023 @ 10:17 AM
I think this is an important discussion. My initial response is UGH! NO!

I am concerned about the de-humanization of the creative process. Our creativity is our ultimate humanity.

But then, I am a grey haired lady who comes from a time of black & white tv, rotary telephones and where things like cell phones and the Space Station are just science fiction.

Until I am shown otherwise, I have a real resistance and dislike for AI and would hate to see our space overrun with AI generated content. Sure it’s novel and fun to explore, but ultimately it feels dangerous, potentially corrosive, divisive and dehumanizing.

I love working with stems from real people. When I remix someone, I appreciate that I am in a unique relationship with them, and that something beautiful and new emerges from the remix collaboration. At this time at least, I am not at all interested in remixing AI generated content. Should AI content have a “voice” at ccMixter, particularly as an “artist”? I’m not sure that it should.
permalink   Kara Square Thu, Mar 9, 2023 @ 8:56 AM
That was my initial response, too. I quickly went down the rabbit-hole of what’s the point of anything anymore (very dark and fatalistic… I’ve been losing sleep about this). But now I’m focusing on what we CAN do… because AI is here (in the world), it’s not going anywhere and it’s going to change everything.

But I started thinking about how different plugins already use AI and how we’ve generally accepted that.

Anyway, I’m riding the middle of this debate/discussion… and I’m so grateful to you and everyone who is sharing their thoughts.
permalink   Speck Sat, Mar 11, 2023 @ 5:33 AM
AI in plug-ins/mastering etc. is a tool to aid human creativity.
AI as a writer/vocalist/musician is a tool to replace human creativity.
permalink   Kara Square Mon, Mar 13, 2023 @ 12:33 PM
Hmmmm… I don’t disagree, though I might suggest that it could be more nuanced depending on how someone uses it.

If a human can’t sing well, but uses an AI vocalist plugin that allows them to construct a vocal melody with midi and incorporate lyrics that they wrote themselves… I suppose the AI vocalist plugin is aiding this person’s creativity.

I’m not saying this would be good or bad… it just is.

And this is the difficult thing… there are just so many different usage cases.

I still don’t personally feel good about AI vocals, but I’m trying to be open-minded.
permalink   Speck Mon, Mar 13, 2023 @ 2:01 PM
Yeah, I think I’m coming around to ‘depends on how you use it’. Or at least I’m trying to.
I still don’t like it and won’t (knowingly) support it.

I think for me it’s an age related thing too. I’ve seen enough harmful ‘progress’ that it’s not too hard to recognize it for what it is anymore.
permalink   Wed, Mar 8, 2023 @ 1:03 PM
As an AI, I don’t have personal opinions or beliefs, but I can provide you with some considerations to help you form your own opinion on this topic.

The question of whether AI-generated content should have a “voice” on ccMixter depends on the purpose and goals of the platform. If the aim of ccMixter is to showcase the creativity and talent of human artists, then it might not be appropriate to include AI-generated content as “artists.” However, if the platform is open to exploring the creative potential of AI and its ability to generate unique and innovative content, then it might make sense to include AI-generated content and give it a platform to be shared and recognized.

It’s worth noting that AI-generated content is a relatively new and rapidly evolving field, and there are debates around issues such as authorship, ownership, and creativity when it comes to AI-generated works. Some argue that AI-generated content should be attributed to the creators of the AI systems, while others believe that it should be treated as a collaborative effort between the AI and the human designer or user.

Ultimately, the decision of whether or not to include AI-generated content on ccMixter as “artists” is up to the platform’s creators and community to make. It’s important to consider the potential implications of this decision and to have open and transparent discussions around the role of AI in creative endeavors.


Spoken Word version:
permalink   Thu, Mar 9, 2023 @ 2:46 AM
AI vocals are not to my taste but then again death metal growling isn’t either. Maybe the best way to handle this is to create a new tag “AI_vocals”. It seems like vocals are the main area where people will take exception to machine-generated content and so clear labelling would help.
We already trust people to credit their sources and the same can apply to tagging.
permalink   Kara Square Thu, Mar 9, 2023 @ 8:58 AM
I totally agree that transparency (like a tag) is imperative. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts.
permalink   Speck Sat, Mar 11, 2023 @ 5:54 AM
Except that tags depend on people using them correctly. If you’ve ever perused the samples tab (also dependent on peoples proper use of tags) it’s obvious that many people don’t.
permalink   Kara Square Mon, Mar 13, 2023 @ 12:37 PM
Of course, you are correct.

I think it would need community moderated/flagged like ads and copyright violations.
permalink   Thu, Mar 9, 2023 @ 9:57 PM
This ccmixter discussion and this Billboard article brought back memories of topics I haven’t considered in 40 years.

I recall writing software, in the 1970s, as a college research project to generate music “in the style of” music that was input to the software to analyze. The software was partly based on a key measure in information theory, entropy. We used a mainframe and punch cards. MIDI-like representation of music was input using punch cards and output on paper. Old time, low tech. Lots of discussion about relationship between entropy and music on the net in this time of higher tech.

To date, Texasradiofish does not use AI to generated audio prior to mastering. Izotope mastering software has been adding increasing amounts of AI. “In the style of” mastering processing is offered especially in the area of tonal balance. To mixed results thus far, IMO. It is improving all the time, however.

Will a singer/rapper songwriter soon belt out an original song a cappella in a studio with a computer generating a full accompaniment that charts well?

If ccmixter members wish to embrace machine generated audio, lyrics and vocals, well label the AI content and content generator (source).

If ccmixter members wish to reserve the website for homo sapiens using their machines, devices, instruments, voices and software which they direct/effect, no argument from us :0)
permalink   Kara Square Mon, Mar 13, 2023 @ 12:47 PM
Thank you for sharing your insightful thoughts, TRF. And thanks for the article link.
permalink   Sun, Mar 12, 2023 @ 7:46 AM
The mastering engineer is slowly being replaced by AI mastering plugins. A lot of musicians is using them, as mastering can be quite expensive.

When creating music, you can have a quartet of violin’s, viola, cello right at your fingertips.

When doing cinematic scoring, full AI composer tools are available. Allowing you to control literally every aspect of the string and brass instruments. Ostinato’s, Martelé, staccato, staccatissimo, spiccato they can all be played at by flipping a witch. AI Scales engines, Legato engines combined with a huge range of articulations that are easy to play are now every days routine for many composers.

The bassist has been replaced by AI in many software suites, such as UJAM, offering intelligent progressions in almost every imaginable style.

And now it is time for the vocalist AI, ranging from Opera to Speed Metal. It is all there. Allowing the composer to compose vocals into the partiture. They can be used as is, or as a draft for the actual singer entering the studio to produce real human vocals.

Assisted AI, These tools have been influencing our music, starting with the very first synthesizer and its simplest appregiator generating many new tunes. And our audience loves it.

Does assisted AI have a place in our community? It is already here in many available samples. Even some real vocals melodies have been inspired to sing a tune to AI generated musicall paterns. Algorithms such as Auto Tune, throat modelling such as Avox has been used by Vocalists all around the globe.

We are completely immersed by technology.
permalink   Kara Square Mon, Mar 13, 2023 @ 1:05 PM
Thank you for sharing these thoughts and insights, Sjef.

Still… something feels different about AI vocalists to me. I think it’s perhaps because nothing is more human than our voices.

But I’m trying my best to be open-minded and I sure love hearing everyone’s thoughts and opinions.
permalink   Speck Sun, Apr 9, 2023 @ 4:35 AM
I recently watched a you tube tutorial on Vocaloid. And I have to admit - by the end of it I had a strong urge to download it. It looks like so much fun to play with. And yes, so many options for human involvement. So, anyway - I now understand your enthusiasm for the possibilities of AI. I still think it’s gonna be a bad, bad thing in the long run and I will still resist adoption, but - I get the appeal.
permalink   Kara Square Mon, Apr 24, 2023 @ 1:52 PM
Thanks for sharing this, Speck!
permalink   Mon, Nov 6, 2023 @ 8:48 PM
On the question have you ever used AI tools in music, the answer is simply yes, and a lot of people using autotune did also. I used computer generated voices, generated out of a preset. But those were the beginning days. I think it is something different, when it comes to the replacement of an original artist by AI. That would be for sure a hughe mistake because an original artist can in a naturaly way improvise and that is a thing that an AI program will always lack of.

just some thougths on this

greets Frank
permalink   Admiral Bob Tue, Nov 7, 2023 @ 8:23 AM
What’s fascinating is this new Beatles tune where they used an AI to take John Lennon’s mixed track and separate it into stems.

There’s a couple of services online that can do this now. It is kind of pricy, but reverse engineering full mixes could be handy in the remix business. Perhaps there are artists willing to offer up their content for remix, but can’t give out the sources. These tools will help.
permalink   Dimensional_Pulse Mon, Nov 13, 2023 @ 2:14 AM
I totaly agree with you, but that was a demo song wich already was made, i meant more the kind of replacing by a sort of bot artist and create totaly new songs without any involvement of the artist.
I think most of the rumble on this subject is about artist having the fear of being replaced with AI by the musical industry, wich is most about making money in the simplest way there is for them. The actors strikes lately were not about nothing, although in a proper way used AI can realy add things to music. It is then not about the one replacing the other but adding in fact a new genre to music without canceling the others. I mean, we still will be allowed to listen to artists who for their reasons only will work without AI. ;)

greetz Frank
permalink   Sun, Jan 21, 2024 @ 4:09 AM
The only Ai-esque method i use in my music so far … is taking audio files, dropping them into Ableton and converting to Midi but lets just say the results are not exactly brilliant sometimes.

As for an Ai assisted method with creating music and posting the results on this website ? it maybe would involve a number of factors! for example…
” where does the copyright and licence issues stand exactly when posting the work on here and then having it re-used/remixed from its original ai assisted creation ? “