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New Stems Browser

fourstones
admin
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permalink   Sun, Nov 29, 2015 @ 7:55 PM
Hey all,

So we could use some help in beta testing the new Stems Browser (!)

This is going to replace the ‘Samples’ tab here at ccMixter so make sure to let us know if you find bugs or if it’s missing that awesome feature you’ve always wanted to see there.

Thanks,
Victor

Quarkstar
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permalink   Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 12:16 AM
I love that clicking the tag immediately returns the result, but shouldn’t it:
(a) only show the tags that are in the first search result so that clicking another tag doesn’t return “wups - no matches”? This is on the principle that a program should not offer an option that produces an error.
(b) show tags that are in the search result. Clicking these expands the list to add samples with that tag too.
(I prefer b for creative searching)

Could we switch between modes, Most Popular Tags, Find Tag (as now) and Most Recommended Samples. Together with (b) this should give some creative inspiration.

A Pot Luck button which could look at todays date and choose a range based on the month (so its seasonal looking two weeks ahead to give time to remix), sorted by the most recommended and least remixed, then pick 5 (I would suggest a Poisson distribution λ=4).

BPM is very important to me, however I don’t like the current slicing into groups of 0 to 5 and 5 to 10, since I already have a BPM in mind and I am browsing for something close on either side. I would like to enter a BPM and to get back a sorted list of the nearest BPM that match my search criteria. i.e. my tune is going to be 60 BPM, I would want the list to be sorted with nearest to 60 first and including BPM both above and below the target up to 10 BPM either side.

When I click the Title I would like a popup/side window of the Description section of the sample. Tags should be included (See b). Most samples include some hints about what the sample was intended for.

I would also like to filter by ccPlus. If I am writing a tune I would like to know if it can be sold under the ccPlus agreement.

When I click a sample I would also like to see remixes that used that sample, since they in turn may include associated samples that I can use. i.e. I click a bass loop, another remixer may have added guitar and pads that I could use too.
 
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permalink   Quarkstar Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 4:10 AM
Explanation of option (b).
If no tags are ticked, then all tags will be shown. All samples will be listed.
If a tag is ticked then all samples with that tag will be shown on the right hand side, the same way as it displays currently.
The left hand tag list will show the tags for the samples on the right hand side (excluding BPM, archive, zip, flac etc.).
If two or more tags are ticked then Match All is used.

Suppose I tick 303, which has 7 samples. The Browser will show the 7 samples , but the the tag list on the left will be rebuilt from the original ticked selection “303” plus the tags in the samples.
The first one “The Beach” has tags “trance, electronic, acid, psytrance”. Add those tags to the list.
The second “This Beat” has tags “hip_hop, spoken_word, loops, downtempo”. Add those tags to the list.
etc.
If I tick “psytrance” then all tunes with tag 303 “or” psytrance will be listed. The tag list will be rebuilt to include the tags of all the samples in the right hand list.

Although “Match Any” looks similar, what this is doing is suggesting associated tags as well. I might be looking for a particular latin music style but cannot remember the name. I would click Latin and the tag list would then show me Bossa_Nova, Jazz and Samba from tags in “Reflections in Bossa”.
 
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permalink   fourstones Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 9:37 AM
I’m glad you explained this because I didn’t understand what you were driving at - basically it’s a “narrowing” function which is good especially since the default is “AND” not “OR” - I’ll think about that.

On the other side: tagging is so loose that if you’re looking for piano you need to search for ‘keyboards’ and other bunch of other tags which is “OR”. I’ve been thinking about having ‘omni’ tags that combine like minded tags into one click.
 
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permalink   Quarkstar Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 11:16 AM
The “keyboards” vs “piano” problem is what I was aiming at. When tagging up, people are likely to have “keyboard” and “piano”. When you search for “piano”, then “keyboard would also come up in the tag list. Using peoples habit of multiple tagging as a very rough and error prone Thesaurus.

I was trying to get away from the omini-solution as that requires maintenance and cost. Some websites have tag clouds and I was trying to get an analogous function without programming a tag cloud.
 
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permalink   rocavaco Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 7:42 AM
Quote: Quarkstar
BPM is very important to me, however I don’t like the current slicing into groups of 0 to 5 and 5 to 10, since I already have a BPM in mind and I am browsing for something close on either side. I would like to enter a BPM and to get back a sorted list of the nearest BPM that match my search criteria. i.e. my tune is going to be 60 BPM, I would want the list to be sorted with nearest to 60 first and including BPM both above and below the target up to 10 BPM either side.


That would be the awesome feature. This is a limiting thing since ccMixter is existing - but probably too deep within the base code because of filtering by tags?
 
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permalink   fourstones Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 9:46 AM
It’s not totally out of the question but it could be a costly (slow) if there’s a lot in the result set. I’ll experiment with it.
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Dec 2, 2015 @ 1:19 PM
ok - it’s out of the question (for now) - all I can say is pretend you are looking for a bpm of 62.5 and that you are given a range of 2.5 below/above.

really sry about that.
 
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permalink   fourstones Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 9:44 AM
Quote: QuarkstarCould we switch between modes, Most Popular Tags, Find Tag (as now) and Most Recommended Samples

I’ve thought about that but for most searches there just aren’t that many results to justify the complexity that would add to the interface.

Quote: QuarkstarA Pot Luck button which could look at todays date and choose a range based on the month (so its seasonal looking two weeks ahead to give time to remix), sorted by the most recommended and least remixed, then pick 5 (I would suggest a Poisson distribution λ=4).

I might consider a whole menu/page for something like this but again, I’m pretty paranoid about keeping the current browser focused on searching rather than random browsing.

Quote: QuarkstarWhen I click the Title I would like a popup/side window of the Description section of the sample. Tags should be included (See b). Most samples include some hints about what the sample was intended for.

Yup - that’s a good idea.

Quote: QuarkstarI would also like to filter by ccPlus. If I am writing a tune I would like to know if it can be sold under the ccPlus agreement.

The ‘Royalty Free’ option in the filter box is ccplus

Quote: QuarkstarI When I click a sample I would also like to see remixes that used that sample, since they in turn may include associated samples that I can use. i.e. I click a bass loop, another remixer may have added guitar and pads that I could use too.

That’s something I never thought of - “also used with” - I wonder how many people look for samples this way (?) That could be even more useful that the “used in” list.

THANKS great ideas and feedback!
VS
 
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permalink   Speck Wed, Dec 2, 2015 @ 1:43 AM
Quote: Quarkstar
I When I click a sample I would also like to see remixes that used that sample, since they in turn may include associated samples that I can use. i.e. I click a bass loop, another remixer may have added guitar and pads that I could use too.

Wouldn’t linking the song/sample title to the song/sample page accomplish that? Didn’t the song titles used to be linked to the song page? I seem to remember finding samples I liked in the browser then clicking the link to the page to then track down any associated files by anyone else. I enjoyed the hunt.
 
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permalink   Quarkstar Wed, Dec 2, 2015 @ 4:42 AM
I was thinking of the time when Adobe Flash is replaced by HTML 5.0.
Our current system depends of having Flash loaded, but the new system is designed to work on all browsers independant of Flash.
I was intimating that with this change you could listen to the samples in the browser and also inside the zip files too without downloading the sample.
Since I don’t have Flash loaded I currently have to download and play every tune and if there is a zip file I want to listen to then I have to download, unpack and listen to it in a music player. Having to download the tunes is slowing down my reviewing and also slowing my finding parts I would like to remix.
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Dec 2, 2015 @ 1:13 PM
I’m working on traversing the tree for samples right now.

just so it’s clear: the first iteration of the stems browser will NOT open zip files and play the contents. Expanding them on the fly is certainly possible but we’re looking into the load on the server to see if it’s feasible (they are archived for a reason!)

but: as I roam through it I have found enabling FLAC preview is extremely helpful and makes a big difference. (see below)
Quarkstar
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permalink   Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 7:11 AM
Looks nice and clear. Glad you filtered out all the infrequently used tags too.
Love that Flash is no longer needed so it can be used on a Pad.
Formatting goes wrong on a small screen, such as an iPad, the cells overlap.
Next page buttons disappeared when a tag with a large number of samples was clicked. i.e I clicked a tag with 12 samples, 10 were shown per page, there was no forwards/back page keys so two could not be accessed.
 
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permalink   fourstones Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 9:48 AM
I have ignored all mobile devices for this particular feature - what good is a sample browser if you can’t download? I imagine the common usage of this feature is while you’re working in your DAW
rocavaco
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permalink   Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 7:35 AM
The new designs of dig and stems look very good - on a very big screen (what is most likely what you use to develop). But on a laptop with lower resolution there is this annoying necessary vertical scrolling all the time. Lots of space is wasted vertically while the information can only be found with scrolling up and down.
 
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permalink   fourstones Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 9:51 AM
my only machine is the smallest laptop made by Apple.

For dig the listings are WAY more compact than here at ccMixter.

For the stems browser I had a tighter version of the layout and it just looked insanely busy. I mean INSANE. Having said that I suck at UI layout and we’ve run out of funds to pay for a designer to help out.

Anybody with CSS/UX skills out there could be a hero if they can figure it out (!)
rocavaco
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permalink   Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 8:20 AM
You decided not to list all tags in the tag list … hmm, well, there is still the general search field for exotic instruments that are no longer listed as tag. But it would be cool for the search to allow a “+” sign to narrow down the result (key1 AND key2) instead of just searching for any (key1 OR key2) of the search keys.
 
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permalink   fourstones Mon, Nov 30, 2015 @ 9:54 AM
yea - there are >17,000 tags in the system - I had to draw the line somewhere.

the query api has the ‘any’, ‘all’, ‘exact’ options so I could certainly work that in somewhere.

Thanks for awesome feedback - lots to think about!

VS
Vidian
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permalink   Tue, Dec 1, 2015 @ 10:33 PM
Not really a bug report. Just wanted to say I like it! individual sample streaming is a huge … this is kind of off topic, but is there an add-on or something I can install on my pc browser to stream Flac files? They are the bane of my online existence :P
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Dec 2, 2015 @ 1:07 PM
don’t know of a flac plugin.

my prediction is that a year from now the major browsers will support flac natively. Latest IE does now.

Chrome has an old (unfixed) bug that prevents it but (on OSX anyway) you can get around it by opening a terminal window and typing (or pasting in) the following:

open -a "Google Chrome" —args —disable-web-security

(go to /Applications directory to confirm that “Google Chrome” is in fact the name of the app. If not, replace the name above.)

This will allow you to preview FLAC files in the new stems browser.

For super advanced people I set up an alias
my .bash_profile:

alias flachrome=”open -a \"Google Chrome\" —args —disable-web-security”

Test it out on the “About FLAC” page in the stems browser.

 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Dec 2, 2015 @ 1:17 PM
I should also add that FLAC previewing today in the stems browser is the definition of “experimental” - the code is literally decoding the FLAC file on the fly, in the browser, in javascript. (If you don’t know what that means imagine a plane trying to take off a runway while they are pouring the cement in front of you)

Things to note:
- “Scrubbing” is not available
- the playback may (will?) take a while to start
- expect buffering pauses along the way

 
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permalink   rocavaco Thu, Dec 3, 2015 @ 2:32 AM
I’m quite happy that flac files are NOT streamed.

Why: often there is lots of white space in the stems. Especially in flac files because it does not increase the file size. Then a waveform of the whole file is needed to jump to the parts of interest. So after clicking download (and once more download) my browser Firefox asks me what to do with the file. And I told him to load it with audacity. Then I can SEE the music and listen and decide much faster.

The download of the file has to be done anyway even if the browser decodes it.
 
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permalink   fourstones Thu, Dec 3, 2015 @ 8:40 AM
check out the pells browser where I show the waveform - at some point I’ll be enabling this for the stems browser too

I didn’t do it for stems because it’s pointless (and annoying) until I can figure out how to do scrubbing for FLAC
 
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permalink   rocavaco Thu, Dec 3, 2015 @ 9:57 AM
pells browser - cool. Didn’t even know that this is existing! And YES the waveform and scrubbing for (MP3)-stems would be highly appreciated!
Snowflake
admin
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permalink   Wed, Dec 2, 2015 @ 12:46 PM
There is so much I love about this new Stems Site! I especially love how the zip file contents are revealed, the FLAC files identified, and individual sample previewing. Searching by tag is also super slick. Great work Victor!!!
fourstones
admin
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permalink   Wed, Dec 2, 2015 @ 12:58 PM
Just so everyone knows: I am monitoring this thread judiciously in between marathon coding sessions and fending off DOS-style attacks on our sites

I’m hearing from a couple of folks that traversing the tree, specifically for samples, is something people actually do - if you’re one of those people and haven’t spoken up here please do so!
Morkrash
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permalink   Sat, Dec 5, 2015 @ 2:59 AM
Works great so far, but here are some ideas:

- The audio player could use a volume slider

- The “filters” button is a bit difficult to find. Users shouldn’t need to click on it—it should already be open. Also, I would place it underneath the tag box.

- The option to display multiple results per page should be beside the “next page” button, not in the filters. The “next page” button could also be placed on the bottom to avoid having to scroll up after every page. I think the general layout can be improved, check out how these sites do it:

http://www.audionetwork.com...

http://audiojungle.net/sear...

- I would change the font colour of titles to black—and perhaps bold them. The grey colour makes them difficult to scan at fast speeds.

- It’s kind of hard to see the bpm information on the right. Maybe place that information in the grey area of each file, next to the file format icon, or next to the titles. Also, would it be difficult to display the duration and perhaps upload date of each track (not the stems, just the mixed-down version)? It might make searching easier.

Anyway, the browser is already pretty easy to use, so kudos on that. Hope this helps!
fourstones
admin
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permalink   Sun, Dec 6, 2015 @ 5:36 PM
So I’ve made an update to the beta site - trying to incorporate as much of the feedback as time would allow.

There is still a ways to go but I have to take a break from messing with features and layout to focus on the bugs and performance issues that I’ve introduced with this update (there are many)
 
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permalink   Martijn de Boer (NiGiD) Sat, Jul 2, 2016 @ 4:49 PM
I applaud your hard work, but today I checked the stems page, and found the button ‘to ccmixter’ (below every tune) missing. It was there before, and quite handy. Can you please put it back? Now it’s a hassle to find more info on the tune.

Best,
Martijn
 
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permalink   fourstones Sun, Jul 3, 2016 @ 10:42 AM
if you click on the song title it should expand to reveal tags and a button that says “Remix Tree”

If you click on the Remix Tree button it should take you to a page that is (basically) equivalent to the class ccM “song page”

if you still want to get to the classic song page you can remove the “beta.” prefix from the URL.

If any of that is broken/not working let me know.

Sorry if that’s a pain but things are evolving in real-time-ish - hopefully soon-ish the Remix Tree view will be at feature parity with the classic view.

VS
 
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permalink   Martijn de Boer (NiGiD) Sun, Jul 3, 2016 @ 1:30 PM
When I remove the ‘beta’ it says ‘Can’t find stems template’. When the ‘Remix tree’ is opened, it works though.

Still, it are a lot of clicks needed to see the info on a tune.

(Also, the ‘display’ selection now only shows 10 for me.)

Please don’t shoot the messenger!

Best,
Martijn
 
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permalink   fourstones Sun, Jul 3, 2016 @ 3:00 PM
maybe I didn’t describe the steps very well:

1. click on ‘NEW’ Samples in the tab above this page
2. you should be looking at the stems browser with a url beta.ccmixter.org/stems
3. When you see a the name of a stems package (like “Just breath”) click on that name.
4. That SHOULD open up detail panel with tags and a bit light blue button that says “< — Remix Tree — >” - if you DON’T see that button then already something is wrong.
5. Click on THAT button and it will take to you a page that is details for that stem. The url should be something beta.ccmixter.org/files/Reiswerk/54206

That’s 2 clicks (once inside the Stems browser)

If you don’t see the information or functionality you want on the beta page THAT’s when removing the ‘beta’ prefix will put you on the classic page.

Does that help?

VS
 
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permalink   Martijn de Boer (NiGiD) Sun, Jul 3, 2016 @ 4:39 PM
Yes, it works. Maybe I just have to get used to it. I found the info on the old page handier, everything together in one view. Now I have to click every part to watch it - like attribution. I do think it’s handier for people searching for music though.

Btw, the display does work, only the numbers are invisible.

Best,
Martijn
 
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permalink   fourstones Mon, Jul 4, 2016 @ 9:13 AM
got it - it will be close to the “old” way - the Overview section is supposed to be open when you navigate to a page (that’s a bug) - can you send and url of an example where the numbers are invisible?
fluffy
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permalink   Tue, Dec 8, 2015 @ 12:43 AM
Oh wow this is so much better! Great work. I can’t wait to see what happens with the rest of ccMixter’s rewrite. :)
daniloprates
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permalink   Wed, Dec 9, 2015 @ 4:19 AM
is it offline, now? I can’t access it. I’m not in US, maybe that’s why?
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Dec 9, 2015 @ 9:50 AM
you should be able to reach it here - let me know if you’re still having trouble
 
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permalink   daniloprates Wed, Dec 9, 2015 @ 10:00 AM
hi, thanks. but still no luck :( [url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/3jdp3r5wve1hwqw/ccmixter.png?dl=0][/url]
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Dec 9, 2015 @ 10:25 AM
sigh.

can you see dig.ccmixter.org ?
 
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permalink   daniloprates Wed, Dec 9, 2015 @ 10:26 AM
yes, it works fine
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Dec 9, 2015 @ 12:32 PM
hmmm - ok - try this:

http://stems.ccmixter.org
 
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permalink   daniloprates Wed, Dec 9, 2015 @ 3:20 PM
yeah thanks! It looks amazing!
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Dec 9, 2015 @ 3:23 PM
thank YOU for hanging in there - def let me know if you run into bugs
spinmeister
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permalink   Mon, Jul 18, 2016 @ 7:29 PM
I was going to take a shot at remixing Blue Wave Theory (Hayburner) since one of the interesting things about their uploaded samples is the fact that they seem to have made pretty much every raw studio track available - and there’s a lot of them - quite typical for a traditional live recording project.

However there are two things that seem to be a bit of a pain in the neck when dealing with lots of individual files:

(1) Unless I missed something, it seems that in the new stems browser one has to click every file download button separately and then another download button in a popup. That’s two clicks per file and in the case of the stems pack from Blue Wave Theory, that would end up being somewhere around 80 clicks for around 40 files. In the old stems browser, I was always using a Firefox browser extension called “DownThemAll” which would allow me to download all the media files on a page in just a few clicks. So that was just fine. However in the new stems browser, that Extension doesn’t seem to work anymore, making the process quite a pain in the butt.

(2) In both, old and new stems browsers, the FLAC filenames are just sequence numbered and after having downloaded them all, and imported them into one’s DAW, there’s no hint of what each stem contains. So I ended up having to rename every FLAC file (and one mp3 file) - about 40 file renames in total - in the operating system, and then the import into my DAW had sensible track names. And that was a real pain in the neck and I might not want to ever do that again unless I have extra spare time and a rather patient disposition that day. :-)

All of this becoming more of an issue, seems to be an unintended consequence of using FLAC files, since in the very old days, ZIP files would be much more utilized for mass uploads of tracks. But FLAC files are often too big to be put into ZIP files (more than 1 per file) without the resulting ZIP file being over the upload file size limit. And that’s also a pain in the neck for uploaders, since they have to do so many more uploads. It definitely has discouraged me from uploading FLAC files before.
 
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permalink   fourstones Mon, Jul 18, 2016 @ 11:32 PM
you can go to the ‘ old’ page for that upload click on ‘download’ that popup should make DTA happy. Maybe.

The old site/code was at least 2 click (right-click, then ‘save as…’)

I’m closing in on the very last piece of the new code: submit forms and how we handle uploads. That will include better naming convention but that’s months away. I definitely prefer ZIP.
 
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permalink   spinmeister Tue, Jul 19, 2016 @ 7:16 PM
Thanks for your quick reply, Victor! And yes, I had used the old page to use DTA for the mass download. :-)
urmymuse
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permalink   Mon, Jul 25, 2016 @ 3:06 AM
Hi Victor

Is it just me or are the new browsers not working at the mo, they used to work fine for me but seem to have disappeared recently. Just get a “loading” circle that goes on for ever

Cheers Simon (urmymuse)
 
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permalink   fourstones Mon, Jul 25, 2016 @ 8:48 AM
what browser and OS are you using?
 
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permalink   urmymuse Mon, Jul 25, 2016 @ 9:11 AM
Windows seven and Internet Explorer
 
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permalink   urmymuse Mon, Jul 25, 2016 @ 9:11 AM
Windows seven and Internet Explorer
 
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permalink   fourstones Mon, Jul 25, 2016 @ 9:43 AM
for Win7 run Chrome or FF - at some point I may do a compatibility build for that IE but not for a while.
 
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permalink   urmymuse Mon, Jul 25, 2016 @ 10:11 AM
Cheers - works with Chrome