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On posting my tracks

EJG (aka Laerlooper)
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permalink   Thu, Mar 16, 2006 @ 11:23 AM
I have a few more CC-tracks that I’ve not yet uploaded to ccMixter. I’ve held off though because they’re all finished tracks, not as useable to remixers as, say, samples or beats. Those of us who’ve been making music for a few years probably have several meg’s of homemade samples that could be dusted off and uploaded here. Is that preferable to building a library of original tunes on my member-page, and if so, what’s the best way to "package" them? I could just upload them as-is, or I could categorize the ones that would go together for a complete song, similar to what I did with my "OboeWonKenobi-DnB Mix" track. For future reference, and for people lurking the forum, what’s the preference?
fourstones
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permalink   Thu, Mar 16, 2006 @ 5:41 PM
Uploading and browsing samples on mixter is, er, less than optimal and there is a fair amount of churn going on about what to do about it, including involving other sites that specialize in that kind of thing.

(Uploading fully mixed tracks here is, sorry, just not very useful for anybody as they very rarely even get streamed, leave alone sampled.)

If I was uploading a sample pack I would do the following: put them in a zip, create a ‘sampler mp3’ for previewing, upload the sampler using the ‘Submit Samples’ form, then upload zip using the ‘Manage Files’ form for the newly created record. Make sense?

VS
tacet
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permalink   Thu, Mar 16, 2006 @ 5:55 PM
Quote: I have a few more CC-tracks that I’ve not yet uploaded to ccMixter. I’ve held off though because they’re all finished tracks, not as useable to remixers as, say, samples or beats. Those of us who’ve been making music for a few years probably have several meg’s of homemade samples that could be dusted off and uploaded here. Is that preferable to building a library of original tunes on my member-page, and if so, what’s the best way to "package" them? I could just upload them as-is, or I could categorize the ones that would go together for a complete song, similar to what I did with my "OboeWonKenobi-DnB Mix" track. For future reference, and for people lurking the forum, what’s the preference?

That’s interesting, I have some tracks too I’d like to put out for remixes. There’s been a couple of discussions in the past about this, the distinction between samples of sounds or phrases, and whole done-deal tracks to remix. The ccMixter devs have since added tabs to the Samples page to assist with this, and there’s a distinction made when you upload something which you’ve probably noticed yourself.

I’d be happy for one of the regulars to correct me, but I get the feeling whole tracks are discouraged if they’re essentially complete. I’m sure you’re well aware from a remix point of view it’s harder to work with something as a whole which has effects and many layers already.

I still think this is a grey area. For instance, I entered the Copyright Criminals competition very late, and didn’t do such a great job on the mix (ran out of time). I got a request for the vocal part, so I uploaded a "fragments" zip which contained what I thought were the most essential and unique component parts (vocals & guitar mostly).

Since the competition finished I now have a better mix (imho), with the competition over should I post this mix as a remix? Why? Peer review I suppose, or someone might want to grab a loop from the new version, who knows.

Tricky uh? :)
gurdonark
admin
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permalink   Thu, Mar 16, 2006 @ 9:43 PM
Quote: Quote: I have a few more CC-tracks that I’ve not yet uploaded to ccMixter. I’ve held off though because they’re all finished tracks, not as useable to remixers as, say, samples or beats. Those of us who’ve been making music for a few years probably have several meg’s of homemade samples that could be dusted off and uploaded here. Is that preferable to building a library of original tunes on my member-page, and if so, what’s the best way to "package" them? I could just upload them as-is, or I could categorize the ones that would go together for a complete song, similar to what I did with my "OboeWonKenobi-DnB Mix" track. For future reference, and for people lurking the forum, what’s the preference?

That’s interesting, I have some tracks too I’d like to put out for remixes. There’s been a couple of discussions in the past about this, the distinction between samples of sounds or phrases, and whole done-deal tracks to remix. The ccMixter devs have since added tabs to the Samples page to assist with this, and there’s a distinction made when you upload something which you’ve probably noticed yourself.

I’d be happy for one of the regulars to correct me, but I get the feeling whole tracks are discouraged if they’re essentially complete. I’m sure you’re well aware from a remix point of view it’s harder to work with something as a whole which has effects and many layers already.

I still think this is a grey area. For instance, I entered the Copyright Criminals competition very late, and didn’t do such a great job on the mix (ran out of time). I got a request for the vocal part, so I uploaded a "fragments" zip which contained what I thought were the most essential and unique component parts (vocals & guitar mostly).

Since the competition finished I now have a better mix (imho), with the competition over should I post this mix as a remix? Why? Peer review I suppose, or someone might want to grab a loop from the new version, who knows.

Tricky uh? :)


See Victor’s comment above on samples and finished tracks, as, really, it’s Victor who is the guy on this.

I do want to share an idea, though—not a novel one, but just a perspective. When I set out to remix, I am almost always hunting for a snippet of something to
morph, alter or "drop in". When something is a quick sample of a sound, then that can be very useful—particularly in the :15 to :30 range. When it’s a 4 track finished piece, then the uses for remixing require a lot of "mining" of snippets of the sound.

I rarely use a capellas, and when I do, I rarely use them to good effect. But for me, an a capella with *any* instruments has too many, because the fun of an a capella is to use it in a way differently than it was originally intended. As someone who uses samplers often to "morph" material, too many things on board can just be distracting.

If you want to see how people make use of samples,
watch the best mixters, like Victor or Pat Chilla, and look at their remixes. They frequently work with samples, loops and pure a capellas. Sure, sometimes they use a track with more on it, but usually, they
take little snippets and loops and even when they use a full matter, then they tend to mine and snip from it, i.e., to create their own loops and samples.

If you’ll then look at which samples get used, you’ll find a simple set of trends:

1. a capellas get used 5 out of 6 times, the 6th "not used" instance being only either coincidence or an a capella which doesn’t quite fit. Pure a capella songs or raps without ornamentation with even a half decent voice tend to always get used. Jokey horror show stuff tends to be less frequently used.

2. Simple samples and good beats tend to often get used. Rather obvious traditional "I did this with FL, it sounds like a synth pulsing" stuff is the exception to this rule.

3. Fully mixed tracks are usually too much trouble to use, because they require too much editing, slicing and morphing—all work that the uploader coulda/shoulda done.

From this I draw the following suggestions:

1. Post a capellas which are truly a capellas.
2. Post 10 second to 1 minute samples of portions of your favorite things from your originals—especially, if you have beats, post beats and not "full band playing for 30 seconds"; if you have a saxophone, don’t feel like you have to post "sax plus three cool sounds from my plug-ins"
3. Post your fully-mixed tracks on your own site or soundclick or dmusic, and mention in pluggy plugs that they’re there.

Now, speaking for me personally, let me add:

4. I love to do ambient mixes, and for ambient things the best things are little 15 second to 1 minute bursts of beatless sound and drone.

I am just an ordinary fellow, not a "really good" mixter like Victor or Pat Chilla the Beat Gorilla, but the foregoing is what I’ve learned in my time here.
EJG (aka Laerlooper)
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permalink   Sat, Mar 18, 2006 @ 4:17 AM
Quote: I do want to share an idea, though—not a novel one, but just a perspective. When I set out to remix, I am almost always hunting for a snippet of something to
morph, alter or "drop in". When something is a quick sample of a sound, then that can be very useful—particularly in the :15 to :30 range. When it’s a 4 track finished piece, then the uses for remixing require a lot of "mining" of snippets of the sound.

So a 30-second clip of a complete track would be less preferable to, say, breaking out the elements of that 30-second clip and uploading them individually? I see where that makes sense….I really don’t use lots of samples in my songs, but instead I tend to create the elements of a song as I need them. With that in mind, I guess categorization is key: instead of uploading the separate elements of a complete track in one zip file, I could group together similar elements from numerous songs for categorized zip files to upload. For instance, a separate zip file for percs, FX, etc. as might be found in a purchased "loop library"? This could make for a fun little project!
PorchCat
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permalink   Sat, Mar 18, 2006 @ 4:42 AM
Quote: Quote: I do want to share an idea, though—not a novel one, but just a perspective. When I set out to remix, I am almost always hunting for a snippet of something to
morph, alter or "drop in". When something is a quick sample of a sound, then that can be very useful—particularly in the :15 to :30 range. When it’s a 4 track finished piece, then the uses for remixing require a lot of "mining" of snippets of the sound.

So a 30-second clip of a complete track would be less preferable to, say, breaking out the elements of that 30-second clip and uploading them individually? I see where that makes sense….I really don’t use lots of samples in my songs, but instead I tend to create the elements of a song as I need them. With that in mind, I guess categorization is key: instead of uploading the separate elements of a complete track in one zip file, I could group together similar elements from numerous songs for categorized zip files to upload. For instance, a separate zip file for percs, FX, etc. as might be found in a purchased "loop library"? This could make for a fun little project!


I myself just uploaded ZIP files with a preview mp3 with all samples as the "main" file for streaming. Check out my latest uploaded to the samples. That was my current solution to the puzzle. I figure this way people can hear everything before they download the zip.

*meow*
gurdonark
admin
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permalink   Sat, Mar 18, 2006 @ 8:54 AM
quote"So a 30-second clip of a complete track would be less preferable to, say, breaking out the elements of that 30-second clip and uploading them individually? I see where that makes sense remixing require a lot of "mining" of snippets of the sound".


Yes. That is much better for me. For example, a gong in a hip hop melody is all well and good, but never used, but a gong by itself I’ll use over and over.

:)
gurdonark
admin
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permalink   Sat, Mar 18, 2006 @ 8:56 AM
Quote: [
i myself just uploaded zip files with a preview mp3 with all samples as the "main" file for streaming. check out my latest uploaded to the samples. that was my current solution to the puzzle. i figure this way people can hear everything before they download the zip.

*meow*


I’m going to go check that new upload out. Thanks :)
tacet
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permalink   Wed, Mar 22, 2006 @ 7:04 PM
Quote: See Victor’s comment above on samples and finished tracks, as, really, it’s Victor who is the guy on this.

I did read Victor’s comment, but only after I posted…looks like he and I were typing at the same time :)

It still remains that laerlooper’s tracks might be interesting, so it’s a shame that there’s no way to hear them if what Victor’s saying is that they’re not useful in a ccMixter sense, and they don’t fit within the frame work.

When I first arrived here my initial reaction was "oh cool" when I read "Download, Sample, Cut-up, Share". For me, part of the initial fun was to hear what other people were doing, discovering stuff. I’d imagine it’s a stage all of us went through when we first arrived. Also, what about visitors to ccMixter who are regularly dropping by just to hear and download tracks, without any intention of getting their hands dirty? Surely, a complete track is all they’re interested in, and they may not share our enthusiasm of the finest example of a cowbell tuned to D you ever heard ;)

It’s also interesting that most of the screen space is dedicated to mixed tracks, "Editors Picks", "New Remixes" which are essentially done-deal items, though I appreciate the difference between these tracks and something I made entirely myself and uploaded. Though, that changes as soon as someone uses one of my samples or remixes my track if I took the time to zip and upload a "fragments" file….which they can’t do if I’m not "supposed" to post the original.

lol…am I driving you nutz yet? Also, just to add to this, the "About" page on the site says "You can also upload your original songs to ccMixter so that other people can remix your work. Download, sample, cut-up, and share ccMixter lets you interact with music in whatever way you want."

Maybe this needs revision? I guess it’s really upto Victor how these things are solved. I know it’s a subject wrestled with in other posts, and don’t get me wrong, I’m not being critical, just hilighting something I’ve noticed personally in my limited time spent here.

It could be I’ve misunderstood the point of ccMixter, but I’d say for me personally I’d like to be able to say for instance, click on Editors Picks, find a remix I really like and then download the fragments of that mix as a zip. Also, I’d like to be able to click on "new source tracks" listen to tracks and again download a fragments zip. I’d also like to be able to upload something completely new (or remixed), it’s associated framgments zip file, with attribs, notes and lyrics for others to enjoy, remix, mock, hate, love, the usual :)
EJG (aka Laerlooper)
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permalink   Fri, Mar 24, 2006 @ 10:41 AM
Okay, here’s a little housy-track to start off with…. All the instrumental samples are there, but I left off the percussion since that was pretty basic. I did include the whole track in the downloads-section in case anyone wanted it in its entirety: http://ccmixter.org/media/f...

(Edit): Well that’s interesting…the track in its entirety is automatically added to the downloads section by default. Well now I know…. ;)