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sharealike

Sharp
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permalink   Fri, Sep 2, 2005 @ 5:59 AM
Why is there no shareAlike?

- sharp
fourstones
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permalink   Fri, Sep 2, 2005 @ 8:29 PM
(not really speaking for CC here)

This may be a bit reactionary but I can tell you that the experience with the Magnatune contest that prevented samples from their library mixing with others on the site traumatized me (us?) a little so we wanted to go with the most flexible (in terms of remixing) that there are.

Make sense?

Victor
zotz
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permalink   Mon, Jan 30, 2006 @ 4:34 PM
Quote: (not really speaking for CC here)

This may be a bit reactionary but I can tell you that the experience with the Magnatune contest that prevented samples from their library mixing with others on the site traumatized me (us?) a little so we wanted to go with the most flexible (in terms of remixing) that there are.

Make sense?

Victor


if that were the reason, wouldn’t the only acceptable license be by standing alone?

the nc options which exist here are just as much a restriction on some as the sa options would be on others. for instance, i am not gonna play with by and allow my stuff to be taken nc by anyone. sorry, that’s just not my bag. therefore, i need sa to play. you can make all the money you can from my stuff, i am cool with that, but i am not cool with my stuff being locked up.

any thoughts?

all the best,

drew
———
Tings BY-SA Song Contest.
I am serious enough about this that I wrote a novel and put it under a BY-SA license. Then, on top of that, I am putting up a thousand dollars of my own money as a prize for recording one of three song lyrics that first appear in the book.
fourstones
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permalink   Mon, Jan 30, 2006 @ 4:52 PM
IANL and this is not legal advice or even opinion.

Yes, but that’s your choice, in the case of SA it is legally not allowed to mix with some of the other licenses here on the site.

In the name of trying to serve the community we include NC because a huge percentage of our users choose to apply that license (just under half) and it doesn’t seem to inherently limit what is a legal remix and what isn’t.

Still, you bring up valid points and probably reflects the growing pains of the licensing scheme in it’s infancy (applied to remixes for all of a year and a half) compared to a fully baked several hundred year old copyright system.

Hope this make sense,
VS
shagrugge
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permalink   Mon, Jan 30, 2006 @ 5:52 PM
I’m getting seriously confused about what all these licenses mean, what they are, how they differ, and what my rights are in regards to art I post.
fourstones
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permalink   Mon, Jan 30, 2006 @ 6:22 PM
(dam, closed the window on preview — second time through)

Don’t get confused, you’re jumping into a long and winding conversation — it’s the results of this conversation that matters and that (hopefully) is very, very simple:

Attribution (BY) basically says, "share my music, remix my music, make money on my music, just give me credit"

Attribution-NonCommercial (BY-NC) basically says, "Share me, remix me,, give me credit but if you plan to make money you have to get my permission first and I may decide to charge you"

Please don’t take my oversimplistic word for it and read the licenses.

The contest sources are more screwy but our site policy (not CC legal restrictions) says that you ‘inherit’ the license of the thing you are remixing so you don’t have a choice (and no confusion) about it.

If you end up with a license you’re not sure because of this follow the link under the license logo to read up on it.

VS
zotz
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permalink   Mon, Jan 30, 2006 @ 7:11 PM
Quote: IANL and this is not legal advice or even opinion.

Yes, but that’s your choice, in the case of sa it is legally not allowed to mix with some of the other licenses here on the site.

snip

hope this make sense,
vs


first, by-sa would only be mixable with by-sa and by licensed work, so your first point is taken. (that is what i want though.)

couldn’t the software handle this problem automatically? that is, if you pick a sample or track, it only shows you other samples and tracks that can be used with the one you want to use and tells you what options you have for licensing your remix?

second, i think i see what you are getting at. unfortunately, for me this means that i will most likely only be drawing from the by works here as a resource and not posting any of my stuff here in return. this saddens me some as i like giving back.

anything i derive from, i will be putting up elsewhere under a by-sa license and i will post a link in case anyone wants to re-use elsewhere under that license.

i wish everyone all the best with their music though.

i also run bysa radio (which is off line right now) so i will be adding stuff i like to my rotation. i also work for some of the top radio stations in the country here and i will do what i can to bring excellent stuff before our pd. i don’t have much if any influence there though.

drew
———
Zotz OurMedia
fourstones
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permalink   Mon, Jan 30, 2006 @ 7:37 PM
The #1 reason CC created and backs this site is to expand the pool of CC music that out there so the fact that you have over 800 BY samples on this site to pick from makes their heart sing ;)

Quote:
Couldn’t the software handle this problem automatically? That is, if you pick a sample or track, it only shows you other samples and tracks that can be used with the one you want to use and tells you what options you have for licensing your remix?


The remixing/composing happens off-line so it was deemed too hard a policing issue to try to work that out. We chose instead to use an on-site license policy that just allows everything and flow with that.
At the end of the day this is a remix site so posting music that can’t legally remix with over half of the material already here just didn’t make sense to me personally — again, we’re still finding our way, we may go to some other kind of policy/enforcement strategy but for now, this is where we’re at.

(god I hope this is making some sense — no guarantees tho, in the end I’m just a lowly hacker-billy-preston-wanna-be)

PLEASE let us know of any progress you make with PD’s and also when you broadcast/podcast music from here (I suggest starting with our fancy new psuedo-radio page http://ccmixter.org/radio and the editor picks from there)

Peace,
VS
zotz
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permalink   Mon, Jan 30, 2006 @ 8:00 PM
Quote: The #1 reason CC created and backs this site is to expand the pool of CC music that out there so the fact that you have over 800 BY samples on this site to pick from makes their heart sing ;)

Quote:
Couldn’t the software handle this problem automatically? That is, if you pick a sample or track, it only shows you other samples and tracks that can be used with the one you want to use and tells you what options you have for licensing your remix?


The remixing/composing happens off-line so it was deemed too hard a policing issue to try to work that out. We chose instead to use an on-site license policy that just allows everything and flow with that.
At the end of the day this is a remix site so posting music that can’t legally remix with over half of the material already here just didn’t make sense to me personally — again, we’re still finding our way, we may go to some other kind of policy/enforcement strategy but for now, this is where we’re at.

(god I hope this is making some sense — no guarantees tho, in the end I’m just a lowly hacker-billy-preston-wanna-be)

PLEASE let us know of any progress you make with PD’s and also when you broadcast/podcast music from here (I suggest starting with our fancy new psuedo-radio page http://ccmixter.org/radio and the editor picks from there)

Peace,
VS


Oh, it makes sense. I just don’t think I am gonna play in this playground though. I really do appreciate all the BY resources that are here though.

One thought would be to open another ccMixter site with only BY and BY-SA options.

It is making a lot of sense and you are expressing yourself clearly. I just and not totally thrilled with what I am hearing. Still, best wishes all around.

Now, as to bysa Radio, when it is on the net, it runs:

Rivendell Radio Automation Software.

Rivendell feeds to:

jackd which then feeds:

ices-kh (sorry can’t find a good link quickly) which feeds:

Peercast whose:

Yellow Pages can be found here.

just search for bysa.

as for the pd, we currently have and or manage three stations here in the country. from what i hear, 100 jamz has been the number one station here since private radio was allowed in 1992/1993 sometime.

you can often find jamz on peercast as well. just search for jamz.

all the best,

drew
———
Zotz OurMedia
fourstones
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permalink   Mon, Jan 30, 2006 @ 8:32 PM
Quote:
One thought would be to open another ccMixter site with only BY and BY-SA options.


100% of the source for this site is open source under the project name " ccHost" — and we do our best to support any otherwise specialized installation. Go for it,

Peace,
VS
zotz
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permalink   Mon, Jan 30, 2006 @ 8:39 PM
Quote: Quote:
One thought would be to open another ccMixter site with only BY and BY-SA options.


100% of the source for this site is open source under the project name " ccHost" — and we do our best to support any otherwise specialized installation. go for it,

peace,
vs


Please, don’t tempt me to put another pot on the stove, I have way too many on there now as it is.

Perhaps some other brave soul will take a run at it.

all the best,

drew
———
How does he blow "smokeless" smoke rings underwater?
misterC
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permalink   Sat, Jan 5, 2008 @ 12:11 PM
OK - I just realized there was no more Share-alike.. I was going to upload some samples from ninjam sessions, which are automaticlly under a CC 2.5 license if done on the Ninjam Jamfarm servers (you accept this before you connect to jam)

The only problem is, with the way this site handles it, I can’t upload anything from there because everything is under the by-nc-sa 2.5 license. This saddens me because there are gigs and gigs of autosong jams (the server automixes and posts them) hosted on the site, and I have a wealth of individual tracks (for every person jamming) from sessions I participated in that I can cut great samples from and share with ccM…

So - I guess the only option is to get the Ninjam guys to change the server licensing, sans share-alike, I guess.

This sucks, because I’ve got some great jams I’ve collected over the past year or so, like 26 gigs worth…
 
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permalink   fourstones Sat, Jan 5, 2008 @ 2:03 PM
what we can do is suck in the entire catalog as a sample pool since they have a feed. In ccM 3 we can do track back links as well (you’re signed up for the beta no? a great opportunity to test that feature ;))

ps - ftr we never had sa
 
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permalink   fourstones Sat, Jan 5, 2008 @ 2:08 PM
also I should mention that after this thread we got special dispensation from magnatune to mix their sa catalog from ours so it’s perfectly legal.

There may be something like that we can work out with NJ but I doubt it because you’d need approval from every artist as opposed to Magnatune that signs licensing deals with everybody so they can represent them in cases like this.

Also: I just noticed the NJ feed do NOT carry attribution with them so that’s another stumbling block. Someone should tell them to include a dc:author tag in their feed to comply with the CC lic and make it more feasible for us to pool them there.
 
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permalink   misterC Sat, Jan 5, 2008 @ 2:17 PM
I thought I remembered seeing Share-alike tags at one point but maybe not.

Well its cool that Magnatune Ok’d it, but yeah I doubt I could work anything out similar with Ninjam unless they change the license you accept, then everything jammed after that point would be cool to upload.

And I don’t have contact info for hardly any of the people I have samples from… I may get on the ninjam forums and try to find some of the people and get OK’s to re-license the individual tracks I have without share-a-like, and also see what I can stir up regarding the attribution tag on the feeds.

And I’m getting on the ccM3 beta site now to test some stuff :)

Thanks fourstones!
dangerous_objects
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permalink   Sat, Jul 19, 2008 @ 6:25 PM
There’s this one sample I’ve used which is from http://www.recreantview.org/ licensed under Attribution-Noncommercial-Sharealike and I’ve got no reply from the author about getting an exemption. So is it impossible to license something SA and upload it on CCMixter now? There are lots of other SA tracks already uploaded.
 
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permalink   fourstones Sat, Jul 19, 2008 @ 11:40 PM
as far as I know nothing has changed wrt SA licenses and what’s allowed to be remixed where and with what.

and no, I just checked, there is not share-alike uploads here and never has been.
 
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permalink   dangerous_objects Sun, Jul 20, 2008 @ 2:25 AM
2005: http://ccmixter.org/files/z...
2007: http://ccmixter.org/files/k...

According to this licensing wizard, BY+BY_NC+BY_NC_SA = BY_NC_SA with no problems. I am confused :(
 
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permalink   fourstones Sun, Jul 20, 2008 @ 9:13 AM
you’re pointing to remixes of Magnatune material. (Please read the start of this thread for explanation of how that works)

That wizard also explains why it’s illegal to mix any version of the ShareAlike license with the Sampling(Plus) family of licenses, of which we have many 1,000s of uploads. Again, nothing’s changed since this thread has started.
 
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permalink   dangerous_objects Tue, Jul 22, 2008 @ 3:35 AM
Thanks for clearing that up for me :) Sorry if I’m asking stupid questions - it’s not easy to find all this historical information all at once.

I know Sampling Plus and Sharealike are incompatible, but I thought both were frowned upon here.

I might try replacing the BY-NC-SA samples I’m using, since the author still hasn’t replied to my emails. Pity… they go really well in this track I’ve been working on :(