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problems with remixing

remaxim
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permalink   Sun, Mar 9, 2008 @ 10:34 AM
Hi,
I am quite new to this hole remixing stuff and experienced some problems. I m using Reason 4.0 and Ableton Live 6.0 and tried to remix This is our music by Forensic .

I usually just use the BPM of my beat(or pitch it a little bit) and use the A Cappella as a “slave sample” (or just leave it as it is, if it fits the beat). This time my problem is that there is no specific BPM of the A Cappella (“the tempo is between 81 and 82”) and I really can’t get it synchronous to the beat. I ve searched for a Howto and some instructions about remixing A Cappellas for quite a while and couldn’t find anything useful. Maybe you could give me some tips on this?

btw: a friend of me helped me doing that with Virtual Dj, but I lost quite much quality that way: http://www.box.net/shared/v...

thanks for your time,
remaxim
fourstones
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permalink   Sun, Mar 9, 2008 @ 12:34 PM
Quote: use the A Cappella as a “slave sample” (or just leave it as it is, if it fits the beat)

I don’t know of a serious remixer on the site that doesn’t chop up a pell to precisely synch them on the beat - some of us are not as good, even then, at hitting all the beats as others but leaving a full pell completely alone or using it as a guide track is asking for trouble in most cases.

For Reason that means slicing in recycle and dorking with midi notes.

Live is much (much!) easier for this because of the visual feedback and ability to fix up and nudge slices while listening. Personally I have not had a lot of success with warping vocals in Live and then messing with the stretch markers, I just slice the track in arrangement view.

If I get really stuck I dig up another remix (or the original if it exists) and use that as a reference right inside of Live until I feel the vocals are placed right.
 
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permalink   remaxim Sun, Mar 9, 2008 @ 12:58 PM
thanks, I ll try to do it as you you told me… even though it seemed so easy when my friend did it with virtual dj, he basically just pressed “sync” and I think that it is very precise (You can listen to the remix if you want to).

Probably I am just too lazy and not used to work on the same project for a longer time. I really have to get used to it.

btw.: I love E_States version of it. If I get stuck I ll listen to it.
 
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permalink   fourstones Sun, Mar 9, 2008 @ 1:55 PM
beat detection is hit or miss. could be just me but the verses don’t sound sync’d to me in your friend’s mix. Many tools have some form of slice detection (recycle and live’s warp to name 2) that can get you started. Of course there’s always scissors and adhesive tape.
 
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permalink   remaxim Wed, Mar 19, 2008 @ 10:39 AM
my ears aren’t used to hear if something is off beat or not. After you told me I realized that this VDJ stuff really isn’t that good. Thanks for that. I didn’t understand what you meant with scissors and adhesive tape, but I guess it’s not that important.

I ve tried lots of stuff to make the pella synced to the beat, but it doesn’t work too well. I couldn’t work with Reason and Recycle, as I wanted the pella to match to the beat and didn’t know how to adjust the pitch precisely. Afterwards I ve worked with the warp markers of live, but it mostly sounded strange because of some changing bpm (at least it changed in my version of it). I m quite new to ableton live and wanted to try those things first, but it seems like I have to do it your way. Is there any way to adjust the bpm of the pella to the beat by doing it in the arrangement view? And does it take as long as I think it does? I ve tried to do a little bit with an adjusted beat, but it already took quite long till I had 3 bars.

I think I ve searched the half of the internet for some acappella remixing tutorial( of course I m exaggerating but it was still pretty much). If you know any good stuff that could help me, it would be great if you can link it for me.

have a nice day,
remaxim
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Mar 19, 2008 @ 3:43 PM
Live (like most beatmatchers) will try to find downbeats in the vocals and adjust the vocal track to the bpm of the project if you select ‘warp’ in the clip view.

Also make sure to select ‘tones’ or ‘complex’ for stretch type in the same view (not ‘beats’).

In ‘tones’ you have the option to adjust the ‘grain size’ which gives you flexibility about how much stretching is done between stretch markers. There are no easy, quick solutions. Even if you find a tutorial on the steps you’ll have to put in the hours/days/years to train your ears to hear when something is right or off.
 
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permalink   remaxim Wed, Mar 19, 2008 @ 3:53 PM
Quote: fourstonesThere are no easy, quick solutions. Even if you find a tutorial on the steps you’ll have to put in the hours/days/years to train your ears to hear when something is right or off.

That explains quite much, and somehow I m feeling much better because of that… I already was quite down as I just couldn’t do a fitting remix (and it seemed so easy with VDJ). Thanks a lot, that really helps me. May I ask you another question if I get stuck with it?
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Mar 19, 2008 @ 7:40 PM
of course on both counts, that you’ll get stuck (we all do) and it’s ok to reach out when you do.
 
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permalink   duckett Wed, Mar 19, 2008 @ 6:50 PM
I’ll tell you what- I’ve only been working with the “beatmapping” function in “ACID Music Studio 5.0” for my stuff, and there are many times when I’d like to slap the durn thing for being so arbitrary; sometimes manual adjustment by ear is the only way… that said, it does help now and again ;-)
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Mar 19, 2008 @ 7:42 PM
haven’t used acid a lot recently but I found beatmapper clunky and hard to work with. I had better success slicing up the larger tracks and loading them as loops, then playing around with the stretch markers in the loop properties window.
 
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permalink   duckett Wed, Mar 19, 2008 @ 8:08 PM
Hmmm… thanks, I’ll give that a shot- maybe it’s just been me, but even smaller files seemed to have lent themselves to either repeated “one-shot” or “beatmapped”, rather than looped; for some reason I find many files seem to drift more as loops, than as copy/pasted segments… maybe it’s just my horrifically backward ignorance. I’ll keep banging my thick skull against it, though!
;-)
 
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permalink   fourstones Wed, Mar 19, 2008 @ 9:25 PM
the other trick is to tweak the project’s tempo to follow the vocals as described here (“fixing tempo drift” page 64)

I think Live 6 has something similar now with ‘slave’ but I never used that.
 
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permalink   duckett Wed, Mar 19, 2008 @ 9:41 PM
Cool, much thanks! So nice to see actual goodwill from a relative stranger, instead of some irritated, snobbish “RTFM”-type response :-)
PS- I’m betting that particular link will help others besides just me, I’m sure there’s others who might lurk, click, and say ” Oh, NOW I get it!”
…a noble soul, you are ;-)
 
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permalink   Bruce H. McCosar Sun, Mar 9, 2008 @ 5:02 PM
Quote: fourstonesI don’t know of a serious remixer on the site that doesn’t chop up a pell to precisely synch them on the beat….

Whoa. I accidentally have been doing it right. :D

Now if only I can finish a project….